Last Seen 70s/80s Movie

[ChronoGrl]

Oh, the movie was most certainly beautiful, chilling gothic... I just found it incredibly uneven. There was the obvious subtext of war (backdrop and subplot of 1944 besieged Spain), but I felt as though Guillermo del Toro just didn't know... what he wanted to... do.

The film was uneven and couldn't decide whether or not it wanted to be commentary/war epic or escapist fantasy dark adventure.

Everything involving fantasy was amazing. AMAZING. I cannot fault him that.

Anything NOT involving fantasy - Was uninspired, cliched, and poorly-constructed tripe that just seemed to serve the purpose of attempting to create "a greater meaning."

Dark gothic fantasies DON'T have to have a "greater meaning." He should have allowed the audience to revel in it just as his childish lead. If there had been more of that, I would have been happy - THRILLED.

But, honestly, the end was fairly predictable and too little too late.

[jenna26]

Originally Posted by joshaube

I loved Pan's Labyrinth, the entire thing was so beautiful. I did expect more fantasy scenes, but what I got was enough. I am not into the whole historical / war genre, but I can genuinely say that I enjoyed even those themed scenes in Pan's Labyrinth. The General was just too good. The ending is what really got me, though.

I agree, I loved everything about the film. In fact, it immediately became a favorite of mine, along with Devil'S Backbone. Both are absolutely wonderful films, in my opinion.

[joshaube]

Originally Posted by ChronoGrl

I just found it incredibly uneven. There was the obvious subtext of war (backdrop and subplot of 1944 besieged Spain), but I felt as though Guillermo del Toro just didn't know... what he wanted to... do.

I do see where your coming from, and many share your opinion. My concept of what the film was trying to do is merely speculation; that is what the film allows. Nothing is truly explained.

Pan's Labyrinth's point, I thought, was the story of Ofelia. She was trying to cope with the current state of her life through escapist methods. She came to face what was going on in real life through her imagination; through the fairy tale. The biggest question is whether or not this fantasy existed. Is the film itself a fantasy, or is it more the story of adolescence. In my opinion, what occurred in this film (the fawn, her trials...) were not real. They were simply her imagination, stories she told herself, stories she created. They were presented to us as if they were occurring; as if they were real. Because Ofelia wanted to believe they were real, perhaps she even did. Everything she experiences in the fantasy world is directly related to the events occurring in the real world. She is merely using this covering in order to make what is happening easier for her to accept.

I believe people came in to this film expecting two things. A period film, or a fantasy film (like Narnia or something... that type of fantasy film. We are expected to believe that the fantasy is real.) A fairy tale, straight and simple (I hope you know what I mean...) It certainly was promoted with a fantastical lean. What they got was neither, not concretely, but a mixture of the two. And that's what the movie's point was.

It allows the viewer a war film, and a fantasy film, but if you focus on either, you're missing the point. The focus is Ofelia. The point is, that the real world is happening, and the fantasy world is her trying to cope with it. Guillermo uses the two worlds to get the message across. So I don't think it was uneven. He did what he wanted to do, use contrast and connection and a central chracter to get a messages across. Along the way, he did throw in a social commentary and his own ideas of Spain. That's just a personal touch.

I hope you understood this. It sounds right in my head, but I can't hammer it out. How I see the film, that is. So... this is the best I can do... :p

[Yellow Jacket]

I too loved Pan's Labryinth. I'll admit, I expected more fantasy scenes. But, the story itself made up for it. Yet another reason why I love Guillermo Del Toro. I can't wait for Hellboy 2.

[hellfire1]

Vampires

...

[ChronoGrl]

Originally Posted by joshaube

I do see where your coming from, and many share your opinion. My concept of what the film was trying to do is merely speculation; that is what the film allows. Nothing is truly explained.

Pan's Labyrinth's point, I thought, was the story of Ofelia. She was trying to cope with the current state of her life through escapist methods. She came to face what was going on in real life through her imagination; through the fairy tale. The biggest question is whether or not this fantasy existed. Is the film itself a fantasy, or is it more the story of adolescence. In my opinion, what occurred in this film (the fawn, her trials...) were not real. They were simply her imagination, stories she told herself, stories she created. They were presented to us as if they were occurring; as if they were real. Because Ofelia wanted to believe they were real, perhaps she even did. Everything she experiences in the fantasy world is directly related to the events occurring in the real world. She is merely using this covering in order to make what is happening easier for her to accept.

I believe people came in to this film expecting two things. A period film, or a fantasy film (like Narnia or something... that type of fantasy film. We are expected to believe that the fantasy is real.) A fairy tale, straight and simple (I hope you know what I mean...) It certainly was promoted with a fantastical lean. What they got was neither, not concretely, but a mixture of the two. And that's what the movie's point was.

It allows the viewer a war film, and a fantasy film, but if you focus on either, you're missing the point. The focus is Ofelia. The point is, that the real world is happening, and the fantasy world is her trying to cope with it. Guillermo uses the two worlds to get the message across. So I don't think it was uneven. He did what he wanted to do, use contrast and connection and a central chracter to get a messages across. Along the way, he did throw in a social commentary and his own ideas of Spain. That's just a personal touch.

I hope you understood this. It sounds right in my head, but I can't hammer it out. How I see the film, that is. So... this is the best I can do... :p

Thanks Josh... Definitely clear (and it's good to see someone who rants just as much as I do). :)

Oh, yeah, I definitely get "it"... I definitely get the point of the film, which is mostly why I was so irritated after leaving the theater. The movie is about Ofelia... But it just doesn't... work. I really thought that Guillermo got a little lost and tried to do WAY too much. Honestly, I felt as though Ofelia got a little lost during the war subtext.

For me, it wasn't as simple as, "I was looking for more fantasy scenes." I didn't expect the movie to be just a simple, pretty fantasy movie (just to make that clear - most people who hear my criticism think that I'm complaining, "I wanted another Mirrormask!" but it's not as black and white as that). I expected it to be dark, mature, moody and thought-provoking through using the medium of of imperfect and scary imaginings... Being whimsical, but dark and mature at the same time... But what came above and beyond the fantasy in the film, well, just wasn't interesting for me, and I thought distracted from what was supposed to be the main focus.

I like the concept of escapism through dark fantasy (and that the fantasy itself is dark, grotesque, and scary, a pure reflection of the world that she is trying to escape, but just simply can't release entirely)... I mean, the concept of a little girl's escapist fantasies are just as dark and scary as reality... Is brilliant! But, again, I thought that there was a bit too much of the "reality." SO much, in fact, that I found myself asking, "What is the point?" The non-Ofelia-centric scenes were just... boring. I thought that Guillermo was really beating a dead horse (life is violent, unfair, and totally sucks... and, thusly inspired, so are fantasies - How tragic! :eek: ).

Even though I found the movie overrated, honestly I can see why people liked the film - it's not without merit (INCREDIBLY well-directed and now I HAVE to see more of his films), but it just didn't come together for me.

[Roderick Usher]

Pan's Labyrinth is one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen. I believe it is the work of a master at the height of his craft. Every element is thought out to the most minute detail. I dream of being able to make a film this stunningly perfect.

The reality scenes are more horrific by far than the fantasy scenes and Capitan Vidal is a villain of the highest order.

A little girl who doesn't quite feel a part of her own family - because her real family is searching for her

A Mother who will do anything to keep her family alive - including take protection from a monster

A Master of control who faces a little girl who step into a world he cannot even conceive of

A guide to the other world who deceives in order to test

Ultimately it is about sacrifice and faith with an almost Brazil-like finale

[paws the great]

Mystic River - 6/10

[joshaube]

Haha, yes, I love to rant. I get caught up sometimes. I often write three times as much as I post, and go back and keep editing it down. That's why nearly all of my posts have the 'last edited' tag at the bottom.

Okay, I see where you are coming from more clearly. I really did think it was a case of, as you put it, wanting more Mirrormask. I thought you had missed the fact that it was not suppose to be a pure fantasy film. I misjudged you.

Note what Roderick has posted above. He makes a good point. The film is very intricate. Not only do you have Ofelia attempting to escape her real-life situation through a fantasy, but her real-life setting itself mirrors that of a fantasy. You have all of the players. Both are equally as dark. Ofelia is central in her fantasy, while she is nearly excluded from the "fantasy" taking place in the real world.

I noticed you used the word 'cliche' in an above post, referencing these real-life scenes. That's what a fantasy always is, cliche, in one sense or another. Isn't everything, if just a tad?

I can see where you are coming from, for sure. Sometimes it does feel as though they are elongating the real-life scenes a tad too much. Taking what seems like it should have been a small addition, and creating a wonderful story that expands far beyond the intended runtime. Noting Roderick, I realize that the film is perhaps not as Ofelia-centric as I had believed. The General becomes another important character, playing out his own 'fantasy.'

I watched Brazil earlier this year, and I would say, I much prefer the ending of Pan's Labyrinth.

[fortunato]

Originally Posted by Roderick Usher

Pan's Labyrinth is one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen.

i have to agree with rod here. i left that theater stunned. it's such a thick film, in pretty much every way. i found myself thinking about it long after i'd watched it, about the connections and relationships between each character, and the purpose of those things. at the beginning of the film, the characters don't seem all that different from each other. i mean, you see that they are definitely different people, but you'd never suspect the captain is a heartless monster, the mother is desperate and miserable, ofelia is actually the princess of another world, etc. it's just all so epic and important, and i definitely felt that walking out of the theater.