Gregg Hoffman – Interview
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Staci Layne Wilson reporting
This interview with Gregg Hoffman (1963-2005) dates back to August of the year he died suddenly and unexpectedly. I was in Toronto to view some filming of the horror/suspenser, Silence, which Hoffman was producing, reuniting him with Saw director, James Wan.
Hoffman was enthusiastic about the project, and was clearly looking forward to seeing it in theaters; it's a shame he never got the chance, but here you can read some of his thoughts on how the film was going at the time.
Our conversation began with a discussion about the spoiler-filled interview actor Bob Gunton gave the press the previous day on the set.
Gregg Hoffman: It’s just a dream: ….and I’m going to stand by that. I’m going to stand by that. That’s what it was. There’s no….there’s no puppets. It’s all just a dream.
Q: Were you freaking out when you found out all the stuff that was revealed yesterday?
GH: Yeah, you could say I was not thrilled, but I trust you all implicitly.
Q: Yeah, especially after the embargo. [laughs]
GH: Not…not to imbibe any alcohol and reveal the secrets to your friends who may post it on various incendiary chat sites.
Q: But it is difficult to talk to people about this movie without talking about the twists and things like that, which you don’t have to give away, but it is an obstacle.
GH: It’s something we’ll dance around tactfully, so. I mean, you know obviously I can speak because you guys know some of it. Fortunately not all of it, but, um, you know, um, that, you know, that’s…I think that’s that hardest thing; the biggest thing when you’re making movies that rely on twists are…..keeping those, you know, it’s…keeping those things a secret for the duration, especially, like, in this, you know, it’s…we battled it…you know I think we’re gonna be successful with Saw 2, but I think that was just a function of like the limited amount of time and we took extra precautions, and.. and even still we’ve had to take down, like, you know, spoilers from God knows where, you know, from IMDB and, you know, we’re, like, being vigilant, it’s really, really bad. It’s like, um, you know, and the same thing, and it’s like, and I also think it’s because of, like, James and Leigh right from the gate people are going to go, like, “Hmm. OK. So let’s see if we can figure out, like, what these….
I think it’s a writing standpoint, but I think it’s at, like, a certain point, like. The next thing they have to do has to just be, like, utterly straightforward, because people are just, like….people won’t enjoy the movie, they just want to be just looking for, lik…there it is.
Q: That’s what happened with The Village. The trend is to make a thriller with a big twist.
GH: Well, let me throw it back to you. Are you, are you satisfied if the ending is what you’d expect. Let me, like let me….if Saw ended and it really was Zep, right? Everybody would have gone, “Oh that was friggin’ lame”, right? So, it’s like, there’s an expect…I don’t know….it’s like it’s a Catch 22. I think it’s like, it’s like yes, all of a sudden everybody goes, “OK, how are we going to, like, twist or surprise you?” But I think it goes to, like, people will be disappointed if what you think is the way it’s supposed to end it ends, you know, so that’s…. that’s the…I don’t know. I don’t know what the solution is to it, you know?
Q: The twist is… there’s no twist?
GH: Yeah, but then they go Ok, but then it was a bad ending. So how do you win?
Q: What are your expectations in terms of Silence and the market, actually? What kind of audience is going to receive it?
GH: Well I think it, listen; I think it’s gonna be…..I think it’s gonna be different, and that’s gonna stand out in and of itself. I mean if you look at what’s, like, you know, this onslaught that’s like coming down the pike, uhm, you know, the Prom Nights and the When A Stranger Calls and that sort of slew of teen remakes. Ok, well, we’re not that, you know? Uhm….we’re not sort of….it’s certainly not a gore-fest, it’s not a grindhouse movie. It’s not a, you know, a 70’s era kind of….that thing, you know? It exists in its own bizarro world. It’s….I don’t think to the casual fan if I said it’s a contemporary Hammer film and people go, ”Uh-huh. What does that mean?” But it is. It’s, like, it’s lightning and fog and graveyards, and, you know, mannered and it’s not cut like an action movie and it doesn’t pound you into submission, and I think by virtue of that it’s a very different organism; also horror movies depend on silence, It’s not a movie about, like, you know…..the whole point of it is it’s like, it’s about quiet. It’s not about giant music [goes BONG!] and you know like and that sort of thing and not about bludgeoning you to death.
It’s like it’s the reverse and that’s, there’s something cool about that, and hopefully people can kinda capture on to that and settle into the rhythm of what it is and it’s sort of, like, groovy retroness. In a weird sort of way I think it will be, it’ll be cool, you know? I mean obviously there’s a group of people out there going, “Well what’s James Wan gonna do next?” I think that’s a hardcore audience. I wouldn’t say that’s enough to, like, open a movie. On the other hand I do think it’s, like, I think this one may broaden out because it’s I think you’ll get the horror audience but I think there going to be a group of people I think it’s gonna play a little older. I think it’s gonna skew a little more female, uhm, than some of these other films might.
Q: What’s the rating for it?
GH: It’s gonna be what it’s gonna be. We’re not really concerned about it.
Q: But in terms of the script, you look at the script, I mean you were saying, "it’s a PG-13 or it’s an R."
GH: It’s borderline. It’s one or the other, I mean, James is making conscious decisions not to shoot gratuitous. This is more a movie about being creeped out than being grossed out, and I think there’s a big difference. It’s sort of like dread and slow build and, like I said, it’s not like, you know, some of these other films that I say to me they’re, like, they’re cut like action movies; they’re paced like action movies; they’re scored like action movies. They, like, bludgeon you to death.
This is a lot more subtle. So by virtue of that the MPAA may say, “You know what? It’s, like, it’s a more delicate flower, therefore it a PG-13,” or they may go, “Shit, this is the most twisted thing I’ve ever seen, you know, with macabre endings and, you know, ventriloquists ripping tongues out and bizarre curses,” and they may go, “Well that’s R.” I don’t know, I can’t….you know what? I can’t presuppose because based on my own experiences with them I think it shifts from day to day, moment to moment, hour to hour and, you know, someone’s nipple comes out in the Superbowl you’ll get an R because of that and 6 months later they’ll relax and things that you would never expect to slide through on the first pass’ll slide through.
If you looked at Devil’s Rejects would you say that was a movie that was gonna get an R on basically it’s first go around? There’s no way, but it did, you know? And so that’s…I don’t get it so I’m not…it’s not like we’re conscientiously saying we’re gonna make a movie because we want, you know, kids to go see it. If it turns out to be a PG-13, it’s a PG-13. If it turns out to be an R, it’s R. You know, it’s by studio standards it’s priced at a point where, you know, it doesn’t have to be 4 quadrants to succeed. If it does, fantastic, but it doesn’t have to be. So they’re sort of going, “Whatever it’s gonna be it’s gonna be.”
Q: How many days did you shoot? How many days were you shooting this movie?
GH: Uhm, it’s about 40+ with some green-screen and that sort of thing.
Q: Can you tell us what the budget is?
GH: I’m not gonna tell you what it is. I would say it’s close to 20 times what he had to shoot Saw. Somewhere in that zone.
Q: Please describe working on this film, versus Saw, and how it is to work with James again.
GH: Well, you know, the one thing, I don’t know, you know, was that I was an executive at Disney for 8 years before I, er…, almost 8 years before I did it and so I really know the ins and outs of how to get a movie, you know, how to get a movie green lit, how to navigate the, “Oh we want a re-write, oh we wanna do this, oh we wanna cast.” I mean the, just the process. It is what it is for better or for worse, you know, and so there was a lot of that that was going on before this movie started and that was where I could really help James because I could understand what was happening on the other side of the conference room and the table, and so rather than going, “Well I don’t understand what they’re doing,” I can say, “Ok, here’s what’s happening, here’s why they’re doing this. Here’s what we’re gonna do, you know, and that sort of thing.
On the set we have more time, he’s surrounded by vastly more experienced people, you know, so in a weird way my job is diminished. Where on Saw, you know, we were in each other’s ear talking back and forth all the time by virtue of the fact, like, OK, well we have to have that piece. Let’s give up this piece. I think we’ll be OK here. This is, like, he getting pretty much everything he wants, and so it’s really just a matter of yeah, occasionally I see some something I’ll go, “Why don’t you have Amber try it that way,” you know just to get an option, but other than that, you know he’s got incredibly experienced DP’s, he’s got, you know, he’s surrounded by people, you know, all the toys he wants.
So that part of my job is different and then again once we sort of get into post and preview process and, you know, focus groups and things like that, you know, then I’ll sort of become the father figure again, but you know right now it’s, like, fly little robin, fly. Like, go be free, you’re doing great.
Q: What kind of approach is James taking to the music score?
GH: I mean you should certainly talk to him about it, I mean, you know, certainly Universal needs to give us the final sign off, but I think Charlie, we all want Charlie to come back and work with us again, although it won’t certainly be that kind of score. The movie doesn’t call for it. Uhm, but, uhm, you know, I think there’s going to be a certain class…again, there’s a certain classicism? Classy? What’s the word I’m looking for?
This movie’s an update of sort of a classic format or form of horror movie, I think, and so I think there’ll certainly be, yeah, there’ll be a lot of homage to that sort of thing. I don’t think the thing, I mean, I think the thing is going to feel contemporary, but I think it’s going to feel very inspired by, you know, uh, films that have come before it. So, uhm, the one thing I can say about James is I think in some ways, to me, he’s almost more talented editorially and on the dub stage and with his composers than he is actually, you know, shooting. It’s really remarkable to watch. That’s where the vision really takes shape.
Q: How much of the film takes place in the location where we were yesterday, or where does most of the film take place?
GH: Quite a bit. That mansion is…..we shot in there for 8 days and it’s, it’s his parents’ house. It’s the family house that he grew up in, that the father’s been in so it’s, you know, it’s the….it’s the “House of Usher.”
Q: OK, where does the money come from in his family?
GH: Uh, they basically own the town. It’s like a mill town.
Q: A lot of the movie is mystery, like who killed his wife? And he moves back to the town after she has been killed. What convinces him that the town holds all the answers to her murder?
GH: Um, there, uh, actually there’s a town crazy woman that says something to him and that tips him off enough to get started. It’s just one of those things, I mean, you know, the wife and he are from there. Everything’s kind of driven him back there and then there’s one of those things where he’s, like, you know, getting ready to get the hell out of there and somebody says something that’s just enough to let him go, “Hmm, maybe I’ll just…,” you know, and then the more he kind of peels the layers, the more he finds.
Q: Your main star really isn't a household name; was that a conscious decision to pull unknowns, or did the studio push for getting a bigger name in there?
GH: Mmm, Ryan [Kwanten] was always a really top choice. I mean, they liked…Universal’s really liked Ryan for a long time. They tried to put him several movies, but because of Summerland, he wasn’t ever available. Um, you know we saw the world of guys in their 20’s, you know? Um, you name him, if he was available, we probably saw them. Um, and, uh, I remember my partner, Mark Walhurg, and I were, we were in the casting session and, uh, you know, Ryan came in and we both just kinda went like, “Let’s not go any further.” You know, the studio really wanted to see everybody, um, and make a choice. I mean, as we know I don’t think that these movies are necessarily star driven.
Um, you know I can point to some high profile movies that haven’t done well in the genre, you know, in the last few months that, you know, that both directors and actors…..I think it’s really more about people who understand it and get it and like and are willing to embrace it. Ryan’s willing to go there, um, you know, um….Amber was, Amber, you know….Amber was an interesting thing. There was really, like, if you start thinking about someone who you could believe as Bob Gunton’s trophy wife, so it narrowed the age. It couldn’t go really young; couldn’t go too old; definitely wanted someone sexy; definitely wanted someone who could play a trophy wife, you know, and I had seen her in Hitch and I had thought she was great, um, and then Donnie I worked with on Saw II and we just had a great time together and he just brings something to everything. And so, you know, it was really just, again, more about putting together an ensemble than it was…I don’t think these movies are star driven.
Q: You think in some way that James is actually more of the attraction here, because of Saw?
GH: It’s, I think people are curious to see what he wants to do. The question to me is really, you know, we all love this, we all live this a certain amount on the inside. There was an article here in Canada that ran about 2 weeks ago after The Island tanked and the whole comment about it was, was, like, who really thinks that it’s a Michael Bay movie, opens a movie, except for people in boardrooms in Hollywood, or people who write about it, you know? And I, you know, that’s, again, I wish I had the answer to that because we’d all be richer and never make bad movies and never make failures, you know.
I certainly think that what’s happened, especially with the DVD release itself of Saw it expanded the people who’ve seen Saw far beyond, you know, the people who saw it in movie theatres. I think it was sold much more as a horror movie. I think there was a group of people who wouldn’t normally go see it because they thought it was way really graphic and, you know, to have seen it and come up to me – taxi drivers, our transpo guys, people on the street who said, “Oh, I saw it on DVD and I saw those, I saw those, you know when it first came out I never would have seen it. It looked way too bloody and gruesome and, like, it really cool. It’s a thriller.”
This, that and the other thing, so I think there’s an audience that’s expanded beyond that hardcore, I, you know, I think we’re being arrogant to say that, you know, James Wan is a household name in horror at this point. But, you know, I think there’s a hardcore group of people who would wanna go see his movie, but again I think it’s about is this a compelling idea? Is it a cool idea? You know, are people gonna dig the vibe of tis movie, and oh, by the way, it’s that guy who directed Saw. It’s a long winded way of saying it.
Q: What’s so scary about these dummies in the film?
GH: They’re, I mean, they’re creepy. Because they’re just, they’re…they’re, like, I don’t know, they’re like quasi-alive, like when we had the ventriloquist on-set and he was manipulating that dummy it was…it’s just bizarre, you know? There’s, like, something about it, like, if you’re watching it do you watch the guy who’s doing it, or do you watch the dummy? Do you find yourself talking to the dummy? You know there’s something, it’s like, that’s like….you do you talk to the dummy and you’re like, “Why am I talking to the dummy?” And it’s something like these things become, like weirdly supernatural and stuff like that and that’s what I think they are. And that’s why I think people think they’re creepy. I had my 4 year-old on the set and the ventriloquist saw him and came over with the dummy, you know, and he was like, “Hi little boy,” and he’s still traumatized. He’s like, “Daddy, daddy, please.” I was like, “Come to work with me,” and he’s like, “Nuh-uh! Billy’s there! Billy’s there! I don’t wanna see Billy.” And, um, he still talks about it. It, like really tripped him out. So it’s, like, obviously something primal.
Q: How many different dummies do you have?
GH: Well there’s the main dude – there’s Billy, and then, uh, she has 101 dolls, that’s really only a shot that you see, but the main one that we do… So there’s 101, but, you know, Billy’s the main, the main one.
Q: What sparked you about Silence? I mean, if you didn’t know who wrote it, you didn’t know who was associated with it and it comes across your desk, what is it, aside from of course Billy, that really grabs you and says this is the movie that I’m interested in?
GH: Wow, that’s a hard question, because… just because there’s so many…there were so many other factors to it. It was, like, you know, we were finishing up Saw, you know, it was, like, if it was a speck I don’t know if I would’ve gone like, “Wow, this is really, just like, whacked out.,” you know? Um, look, I think…I think we have to take the genre another direction.
I mean, if I had to say what compels you to make it I think, I think it behooves us, especially as this wave is….wherever we actually are in the wave, um, to try different things, you know, and to, like, to go outside of, sort of, this 80’s remake thing that, you know, seems to be going on. You know, and it’s like, that’s it. I mean I’d like to take chances. I’m glad Universal did, you know, because this thing isn’t normal, you know, um, any more than Saw was, so it’s just, I think it’s like you gotta try. You gotta try. You gotta do this as opposed to just dust off a chestnut. You know, put some girls in and have ‘em scream and, you know, throw some drums on the soundtrack. So I hope that kind of answers it.
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Staci Layne Wilson reporting