Satanism

[Dara]

Originally Posted by Angra

Indeed.

Especially fun to wear if you work in a shop or with some kind of customer service.

I work in a Church Of England school.Maybe I should get one?? !!They think im a pagan(so therefore worship the devil in their eyes ) as I paint massive murals and have pink hair.(Thats how they can spot you!)~I get put in the art cupboard when The Church governors come to look round! hahah

[Bob Gray]

Originally Posted by Медвежуть

lavey's satanism is nothing but a sect with a set of specific rules and principles, which you belive in and were listing earlier. and all i was saying that, in my opinion, they are using a wrong name for it because it has nothing to do with satan. you say you're not a satanist and you are right, you just like this sect, that's all.

I don't see how they could be using the wrong name, Satan just means "the opposer" (which can also be a human) and that is what they do, oppose the belief in supernatural beings. It's not a sect in the fact that it isn't breaking off from another religion or belief system. I do think it is an interesting belief system.

[wizard of gore]

Originally Posted by Bob Gray

, Satan just means "the opposer .

really!i thought it was a name used in the bible ,the name of an angel that decided to do what he wants,and was the opposer to god?

[Bob Gray]

Originally Posted by wizard of gore

really!i thought it was a name used in the bible ,the name of an angel that decided to do what he wants,and was the opposer to god?

It is from the Hebrew Bible but it is not the name of an angel, it is a title that means "the opposer or the adversary", so Satanists are correct in using that term in describing themselves. They oppose or are the adversaries of the beliefs of those who worship and believe in a divine being.

[Bob Gray]

Originally Posted by Медвежуть

i agree with wizard on "satan" question. satanism is a religion where people worship the satan (in oppose to worshiping the god). everything else is not a correct name use.
i think that lavey's organisation is a sect because:
1. they break from the regular belief system (regular belief system doesn't say if they piss you off - destroy them). in regular belief system you'll go to jail for that.
2. they have a set of rules and "sins" like any other religion does.
3. they have a Satanic Bible
4. they've got a Church of Satan (membership fee - 200$:D)
yeaah, i think it's a sect

also, if they oppose the belief in supernatural things, there's already a word for that - atheism

Well, all I can tell you is that you'd be wrong in calling them a sect. They didn't break off from another religion, it just changed its name from The Order of the Trapezoid to the Church of Satan, therefore they can't be a sect. As far as the membership goes, yes there are what is called active members who pay money to it, there are also registered members who do not pay nor are there any requirements to achieve this position. I do agree with you that they are a religion which is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values. LaVeyan Satanism does not involve the literal worship of any being other than the self, so you'd be wrong in saying that they worship the satan.

[Bob Gray]

Originally Posted by Медвежуть

i've never said that they worship satan. in fact, if they would do that, i'd had nothing against the name "satanism". in my opinion, they broke off from the traditional theistic satanism, two of them have very similar values. individualism and personal developement is a huge part of traditional satanism as well. so, they took the name and values, added some more stuff and made satan a symbolic figure.
and to become a registered member you do have to pay 200$
http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Affiliation.html

this discussion makes me wanna watch some good bloody disgusting movie about satanic rituals, burning witches, and baby sacrifices:D and to tie it up to the thread topic, those would make an excellent set of scary tools
fuck yeaah!

They didn't break off from Theistic Satanism at, they draw influences from the rituals and ceremonies of occultist Aleister Crowley and the philosophies of Friedrich Nietzsche and Ayn Rand. Your point about them worshiping "satan" is invalid in that "satan" isn't the name of the being but is instead a title and that is how they are using it. There are many religions that use similar philosophies and beliefs but are obviously separate from one another. I haven't checked lately but only the active members use to have to pay, I see that has changed.

[Bob Gray]

Originally Posted by Медвежуть

where did i say that they worship satan?

I worded that wrong, I didn't mean that you were saying they worshiped satan, I was saying that just because they don't worship the devil doesn't mean that they can't use the term satanism because "satan" isn't the name of an entity, just a title that means "opposer". It is completely reasonable for them to call themselves satanists which just means "opposers of belief in the divine". They are also different from atheists in that they have set beliefs, guidelines, and practice magic. Atheists do none of those things.

You have the right to not like them for whatever reason you deem fit, I'm just keeping the facts straight.

[wizard of gore]

i just put a voodoo curse on both of you

[Bob Gray]

Originally Posted by Медвежуть

yeah, "magic" is another point of my concern. they say that they practice magic, but they under magic they mean some psychological stuff and deny the existence of a magic in common sense of that word.
it's like "yeah i'm a satanist, but there is no satan. i practice magic, yet there is no magic"...i might be simple minded, but i start to think right away "hey, get your shit together and call things by their right names"


shut up:D

Practicing magic and believing in a supernatural being are two different things.

[Bob Gray]

Originally Posted by Медвежуть

supernatural is something that cannot be explained according to the natural laws. soo, i always thought that magic is the part of supernatural. it's not the normal part of our lives, that's for sure. and magic, in common meaning of this word, always involves using supernatural forces in order to reach certain goal.

Magic is paranormal, not supernatural, paranormal means phenomena understood to be outside of science's current ability to explain or measure. Supernatural means pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural or attributed to God or a deity. LeVeyan Satanists practice two broadly distinguished kinds of magic: Lesser Magic which is a system of manipulation that incorporates one or more of three main psychological themes: sex, sentiment, and wonder. Greater Magic involves ritual and ceremony in order to focus one's emotional energy for a specific purpose.

I'm done arguing now, you don't like LaVeyan Satanists, I'm neutral towards them, end of story.