New Controversial 'Marriage Question'

[urgeok]

i believe the christmas tree was origionally a pagan fertility symbol ..

or am i way off on that one too ?

Newb, do your thing :)

[newb]

Germany is credited with starting the Christmas tree tradition in the 16th century when devout Christians brought decorated trees into their homes. Some built Christmas pyramids of wood and decorated them with evergreens and candles if wood was scarce.
The Christmas tree custom gradually became popular in other parts of Europe. In England Prince Albert, husband of Queen Victoria made Christmas trees fashionable by decorating the first English Christmas tree at Windsor castle with candles and a variety of sweets, fruits and gingerbread in 1841. Of course, soon other wealthy English families followed suit, using all kinds of extravagant items as decorations. Charles Dickens described such a tree as being covered with dolls, miniature furniture, tiny musical instruments, costume jewelry, toy guns and swords, fruit and candy, in the 1850s.
Most of the 19th century Americans found Christmas trees an oddity. The first record of one being on display was in the 1830s by the German settlers of Pennsylvania. They put one on show to raise money for a local church. In 1851 a tree was set up outside of a church. The people of the parish thought it such an outrage and a return to paganism and asked the minister to take it down.
By the 1890s Christmas ornaments were arriving from Germany and Christmas tree popularity was on the rise around the U.S. It was noted that Europeans used small trees about four feet in height, while Americans liked their Christmas to reach from floor to ceiling.
The early 20th century saw Americans decorating their trees mainly with homemade ornaments, while the German-American sect continued to use apples, nuts, and marzipan cookies. Popcorn joined in after being dyed bright colors and interlaced with berries and nuts.
Electricity helped introduce Christmas lights making it possible for Christmas trees to glow for days on end. With this, Christmas trees began to appear in town squares across the country. All important buildings, private and public, signaled the beginning of the Christmas holiday with the tree ceremony.
Early Christmas trees had, in place of angels, figures of fairies - the good spirits, though horns and bells were once used to frighten off evil spirits.
In Poland, Christmas trees used to be decked with angels, peacocks and other birds as well as many, many stars. In Sweden, trees are decorated with brightly painted wooden ornaments and straw figures of animals and children. In Denmark, tiny Danish flags along with mobiles of bells stars, snowflakes and hearts are hung on Christmas trees. Japanese Christians prefer tiny fans and paper lanterns. Lithuanians cover their trees with straw bird cages, stars, and geometric shapes. The straw sends a wish for good crops in the coming year. Czechoslovakian trees display ornaments made from painted egg shells.
A Ukrainian Christmas tree has a spider and web for good luck. Legend has it that a poor woman with nothing to put on her children's tree woke on Christmas morning to find the branches covered with spider webs turned to silver by the rising sun.

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by urgeok
i believe the christmas tree was origionally a pagan fertility symbol ..

or am i way off on that one too ?

Newb, do your thing :)

LMAO...Don't encourage him :D

[Rotting Eye]

newb where are you getting this information?

and please don't let it be a christian biased website :rolleyes:

[The STE]

Originally posted by bwind22
I was having a similar debate with a friend one time and he brought up the point that "Seperation of church and state' is the biggest myth around. It doesn't say that anywhere in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights."

Bill of Rights
Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I think your question, Bloody, is bass ackwards. One should be asking, if there's a supposed seperation between church and state, why does the gov. recognize Christian or Jewish marriages at all? Pagan, Wiccan, and the rest are the ones who've got it right.

[newb]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
newb where are you getting this information?

and please don't let it be a christian biased website :rolleyes:

google

[bwind22]

Originally posted by The STE
I think your question, Bloody, is bass ackwards. One should be asking, if there's a supposed seperation between church and state, why does the gov. recognize Christian or Jewish marriages at all? Pagan, Wiccan, and the rest are the ones who've got it right.

Sam, it says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".

That is basically saying there can be no national religion.

While it is along the right lines, it doesn't call for a complete seperation of church and state. What I am asking is where did this term 'Seperation of church and state' come from? Why is that term tossed around like it's in the Constitution and we are all owed it?

Another point of interest, those guys that wrote the Bill of Rights, were primarily Christian. They followed the Ten Commandments, they printed our money with 'In God we trust' and the pledge of allegiance was made with 'One nation under God.' It is safe to say this country was founded on Christian principles. I'd also wager to guess that all of this wasn't exactly what they had in mind when they wrote that, and if they knew where it would eventually end up, they probably would have been a bit more specific.

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by The STE
I think your question, Bloody, is bass ackwards. One should be asking, if there's a supposed seperation between church and state, why does the gov. recognize Christian or Jewish marriages at all? Pagan, Wiccan, and the rest are the ones who've got it right.

What I mean is...Marriage affords people certain benefits...As in Health Insurance, Taxes, Social Security, etcetera...Sooo...Since they DO recognize Christian Marriage as qualification for these benefits, why not ALL religious unions?...

The irony is, if they DID accept the unions of all religions, there would actually BE a separation of church and state, as the qualifications for 'marriage benefits' would no longer BE based on ANY religion, but only on the union itself.......Hmm...Not sure if you guys are gonna understand that...I don't know how else to put it, and I know what I mean...lol

[The STE]

Originally posted by bwind22
Sam, it says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".

That is basically saying there can be no national religion.

While it is along the right lines, it doesn't call for a complete seperation of church and state.

It would cover marriage, too. Marriage is a religious practice, so technically the government shouldn't have much, if any, say in it.

And it would also rule out making laws based on things in the bible

[Haphazard]

Not to get too deep here or anything, but I say...

FUCK MARRIAGE ALTOGETHER!

:cool: