I had a talk with God...

[fluffho]

Originally posted by Vleeshaak
If God created us, then who created God?

i think he/she simply congealed somewhere.... :D

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Vleeshaak
If God created us, then who created God?

This is actually a valid question that I have never heard adequately answered. In my experiences with having religious debates, I have oftentimes come across the argument that the universe, and life itself, is so complex and precise that it could not have just formed on it's own. It had to have an intelligent maker. For example, if you were walking along the beach and suddenly came across a watch, you would know instantly that such a device had to be made by someone ... not just formed together on its' own.

To this argument I point out the error that, according to people who use this argument, god is actually more complex and precise than we, or the universe He created. He is so complex, in fact, that we human beings can barely comprehend him. And yet, such a being is free from needing a creator. Which is a self-defeating point for the argument of design. How can one argue that complex, ordered things like the universe must have a creator, and then say, two seconds later, that complex things like god do not? You've just shown that not all things that are complex and precise need a creator. So why must you arbitrarily assign this requirement to the universe, and not to god? Could not the universe have "always been"?

[KRUGERKID13]

that question will drive a man crazy. Ive spent night thinking that question

[nine9]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
This is actually a valid question that I have never heard adequately answered. In my experiences with having religious debates, I have oftentimes come across the argument that the universe, and life itself, is so complex and precise that it could not have just formed on it's own. It had to have an intelligent maker. For example, if you were walking along the beach and suddenly came across a watch, you would know instantly that such a device had to be made by someone ... not just formed together on its' own.

To this argument I point out the error that, according to people who use this argument, god is actually more complex and precise than we, or the universe He created. He is so complex, in fact, that we human beings can barely comprehend him. And yet, such a being is free from needing a creator. Which is a self-defeating point for the argument of design. How can one argue that complex, ordered things like the universe must have a creator, and then say, two seconds later, that complex things like god do not? You've just shown that not all things that are complex and precise need a creator. So why must you arbitrarily assign this requirement to the universe, and not to god? Could not the universe have "always been"?

What if there was no beginning and no end....it just always has been there only in different forms.....No time....only illusion......No birth and no death.....illusion only...........everything just is......and is not at the same time. How can a creator exist when there never was a beginning. We then are all part of it all...........existing.........always dancing in different forms........

[KRUGERKID13]

i think its all been done and were just being played over and over until we get it right

[nine9]

Originally posted by KRUGERKID13
i think its all been done and were just being played over and over until we get it right

Simple but profound........Stephan Hawking would be proud! :)

Think......2001 ..............I think Clarke was right there!

[KRUGERKID13]

Didnt like 2001 and never read any of hawkings stuff but would like to

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by nine9
What if there was no beginning and no end....it just always has been there only in different forms.....No time....only illusion......No birth and no death.....illusion only...........everything just is......and is not at the same time. How can a creator exist when there never was a beginning. We then are all part of it all...........existing.........always dancing in different forms........

Very poetic, Nine9! :) There is an argument that stems from the Big Bang Theory that says that the universe may be in a perpetual state of Big Bangs and what are known as Big Crunches. For example, once this universe has expanded to a certain size, it may begin to collapse back on itself (thus, the Big Crunch). The pressure of such a collapse will cause yet another Big Bang, and the universe will expand again ... only to crunch again, then expand, then crunch. It may be that this cycle has been going on since the beginning of time (if not before), and our existence is just one in an endless cycle of bangs and crunches. But, I think it has recently been determined (and I mean as recent as within the past two years, because I remember hearing it on the radio) that the universe will not crunch on itself, but will come to rest when it's expansion has slowed to a halt. Which is good news, I suppose! Although, I don't think we'll be around when that happens. The sun will burn out (thus, causing it to expand and engulf Earth and its surrounding planets before fizzling out) long before the crunch happens.

[Sistinas]

Originally posted by Chainsaw Guy
I am afraid theres no after life and just darkness

I am afraid there is life after the darkness.

[Arioch]

To this argument I point out the error that, according to people who use this argument, god is actually more complex and precise than we, or the universe He created. He is so complex, in fact, that we human beings can barely comprehend him. And yet, such a being is free from needing a creator. Which is a self-defeating point for the argument of design. How can one argue that complex, ordered things like the universe must have a creator, and then say, two seconds later, that complex things like god do not? You've just shown that not all things that are complex and precise need a creator. So why must you arbitrarily assign this requirement to the universe, and not to god? Could not the universe have "always been"?

Nicely phrased....i've often pondered this one myself...