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#11
04-19-2004, 10:09 PM
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fluff you just made some of the greatest points ever said on this board.....BRAVO
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#12
04-19-2004, 10:21 PM
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well im not trying to change peoples minds. i DO agree with a lot of the points above mine but i just want peopel to re member the points on the othersid as well
when yuo have kids, do you tell them "clean up your room. your being a pig. and eat your vegetables your gonna get fat" no... but you DO need to tell them those things, its better for them. but there is a better way"you did really well on your test the other day. im proud of you. how about yo ugo clean up your room then we'll go to .... the museum" ok so i didnt put much thought into that but you get the idea. you cant just point at all the faults, you have to also recognize the rights.
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#13
04-19-2004, 10:25 PM
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Good points yes, but best points on the board...I think not, no. I point you to some of my previous arguments.
Some points can be contradicted though, in as much as we do help other countries, we also hurt them, Iraq for example is being rebuilt by americans who have ties to the person in charge of assigning contractors to rebuild Iraq, I ask you why arn't they allowed to rebuild their own country when they need jobs so badly? your second point contradicts itself, every country has different strengths and weaknessess with its problems comapared to other countries. Your third point argues that corporations are the source of all jobs, that is false. You can have emplyment without being controlled by big business. Democracy in itself is contrast to the Capatilist system we have for an economy. Democracy is all about equal representation in government and everyone having a voice, but in a true capatalists society the trend is for the few elites to control and own the top 90% of all wealth, and the vast majority in poverty. Luckily this has been kept in control by the governments intervention in Business, antitrust laws and the like. Yes it was only around for 88 years, but segregation was around for long after that, and many other countries had outlawed it before the US had. The US does have its perks, but it is far from perfect as I said recently in another thread, but so far I am yet to see any actual perks that the US has over any other country.
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ARTHUR: Old woman! DENNIS:Man! ARTHUR:Man. Sorry. What knight lives in that castle over there? DENNIS:I'm thirty-seven. ARTHUR:I-- what? DENNIS:I'm thirty-seven. I'm not old. ARTHUR:Well, I can't just call you 'Man'. DENNIS:Well, you could say 'Dennis'. ARTHUR:Well, I didn't know you were called 'Dennis'. DENNIS:Well, you didn't bother to find out, did you? ARTHUR:I did say 'sorry' about the 'old woman', but from the behind you looked-- DENNIS:What I object to is that you automatically treat me like an inferior! ARTHUR:Well, I am King! DENNIS:Oh, King, eh, very nice. And how d'you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers! By 'anging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society. If there's ever going to be any progress with the-- WOMAN: Dennis, there's some lovely filth down here. Oh! How d'you do? ARTHUR:How do you do, good lady? I am Arthur, King of the Britons. Who's castle is that? WOMAN:King of the who? ARTHUR:The Britons. WOMAN:Who are the Britons? ARTHUR:Well, we all are. We are all Britons, and I am your king. WOMAN:I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective. DENNIS:You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship: a self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes-- WOMAN:Oh, there you go bringing class into it again. DENNIS:That's what it's all about. If only people would hear of-- ARTHUR:Please! Please, good people. I am in haste. Who lives in that castle? WOMAN:No one lives there. ARTHUR:Then who is your lord? WOMAN:We don't have a lord. ARTHUR:What? DENNIS:I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week,... ARTHUR:Yes. DENNIS:...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting... ARTHUR:Yes, I see. DENNIS:...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,... ARTHUR:Be quiet! DENNIS:...but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major-- ARTHUR:Be quiet! I order you to be quiet! WOMAN:Order, eh? Who does he think he is? Heh. ARTHUR:I am your king! WOMAN:Well, I didn't vote for you. ARTHUR:You don't vote for kings. WOMAN:Well, how did you become King, then? ARTHUR:The Lady of the Lake,... [angels sing] ...her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. [singing stops] That is why I am your king! DENNIS:Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. ARTHUR:Be quiet! DENNIS:Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you! ARTHUR:Shut up! DENNIS:I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away! ARTHUR:Shut up, will you? Shut up! DENNIS:Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system. ARTHUR:Shut up! DENNIS:Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed! ARTHUR:Bloody peasant! DENNIS:Oh, what a give-away. Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about. Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?
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#14
04-19-2004, 10:32 PM
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I agree that me and Unit 03 tend to take a liberal, and sometimes negative, approach to politics in general and america at present.
And you make alot of good points there Fluff, but i cant stand being told im UNpatriotic, because i wont vote for bills that allow law enforcement AS WELL AS the FBI to look into anything im searching online, anything i have on my computer, anything i buy, anything like that. Thats bullshit and unconstitutional at BEST. It never would have passed if it wasnt called the PATRIOT act, and if 9/11 hadn't happened. Even congress senators have admitted they passed it in haste due to 9/11...
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#15
04-19-2004, 10:36 PM
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ok sorry i just read what i wrote and i didnt explain myself well. what i ment is that im a peace full man and i cant stand war. and i want to state that i do think 9 11 was a tragedy but what this forum was about is how people use it as a mask for war and its really pissing me off. i dont think we should be in iraq and i dont agree with bush. but im sorry i didnt think this thread whould be read this way in my head i thought i made it clear but i really didnt and im sorry and i guess i took it a little far saying fuck 911 fuck the war and fuck america.
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#16
04-19-2004, 10:38 PM
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Well at least you can admit mistakes ...unlike a certain president I know :p And hey you didn't go and start a war because of it:cool:
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ARTHUR: Old woman! DENNIS:Man! ARTHUR:Man. Sorry. What knight lives in that castle over there? DENNIS:I'm thirty-seven. ARTHUR:I-- what? DENNIS:I'm thirty-seven. I'm not old. ARTHUR:Well, I can't just call you 'Man'. DENNIS:Well, you could say 'Dennis'. ARTHUR:Well, I didn't know you were called 'Dennis'. DENNIS:Well, you didn't bother to find out, did you? ARTHUR:I did say 'sorry' about the 'old woman', but from the behind you looked-- DENNIS:What I object to is that you automatically treat me like an inferior! ARTHUR:Well, I am King! DENNIS:Oh, King, eh, very nice. And how d'you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers! By 'anging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society. If there's ever going to be any progress with the-- WOMAN: Dennis, there's some lovely filth down here. Oh! How d'you do? ARTHUR:How do you do, good lady? I am Arthur, King of the Britons. Who's castle is that? WOMAN:King of the who? ARTHUR:The Britons. WOMAN:Who are the Britons? ARTHUR:Well, we all are. We are all Britons, and I am your king. WOMAN:I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective. DENNIS:You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship: a self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes-- WOMAN:Oh, there you go bringing class into it again. DENNIS:That's what it's all about. If only people would hear of-- ARTHUR:Please! Please, good people. I am in haste. Who lives in that castle? WOMAN:No one lives there. ARTHUR:Then who is your lord? WOMAN:We don't have a lord. ARTHUR:What? DENNIS:I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week,... ARTHUR:Yes. DENNIS:...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting... ARTHUR:Yes, I see. DENNIS:...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,... ARTHUR:Be quiet! DENNIS:...but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major-- ARTHUR:Be quiet! I order you to be quiet! WOMAN:Order, eh? Who does he think he is? Heh. ARTHUR:I am your king! WOMAN:Well, I didn't vote for you. ARTHUR:You don't vote for kings. WOMAN:Well, how did you become King, then? ARTHUR:The Lady of the Lake,... [angels sing] ...her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. [singing stops] That is why I am your king! DENNIS:Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. ARTHUR:Be quiet! DENNIS:Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you! ARTHUR:Shut up! DENNIS:I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away! ARTHUR:Shut up, will you? Shut up! DENNIS:Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system. ARTHUR:Shut up! DENNIS:Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed! ARTHUR:Bloody peasant! DENNIS:Oh, what a give-away. Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about. Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?
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#17
04-19-2004, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
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#18
04-19-2004, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
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I was blind but now I see
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#19
04-19-2004, 10:41 PM
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i didnt think it through before i sent it and i feel like a total retard. and odly enough i never ment for this to be a anti-american thread i actualy love america but i just cant stand war .
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#20
04-19-2004, 10:42 PM
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its alright man dont feel retarded just re read what you type before you post it....i understand you made a mistake....everyone does...your only human
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