Hell

[novakru]

The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis
Yep, it will be EXACTLY like that story.

[Doc Faustus]

Whether or not there is some sort of official burning place or thinking place, a soul rises if it rises and suffers if it has brought suffering. Without an earthly way for these things to happen, it is not to me inconceivable for a soul to place itself in a state of pure suffering or pure bliss dependent upon karmic conditions.

[milktoaste]

Originally Posted by Doc Faustus

Whether or not there is some sort of official burning place or thinking place, a soul rises if it rises and suffers if it has brought suffering. Without an earthly way for these things to happen, it is not to me inconceivable for a soul to place itself in a state of pure suffering or pure bliss dependent upon karmic conditions.

So can one cause justifiable suffering, or can accidental suffering be inflicted without 'bad' karma weighing that persons soul down? I'm not 100% on the karma thing, as I strongly believe bad things happen to good people, but I am more and more interested in learning more about it.

[Papillon Noir]

Originally Posted by Doc Faustus

Whether or not there is some sort of official burning place or thinking place, a soul rises if it rises and suffers if it has brought suffering. Without an earthly way for these things to happen, it is not to me inconceivable for a soul to place itself in a state of pure suffering or pure bliss dependent upon karmic conditions.

What do you think about Purgatory? Or is it a non-issue?

[novakru]

I have been waiting for a response that delves into the absurdity of ETERNAL damnation for an average of about 70 years of life.
Even if you were a complete shit from the moment you were born till the day you die... ETERNAL suffering??
That's just ... wrong, on so many levels. At some point you gotta realize " oh man, I was an ASSHOLE, let me go check this Heaven thing out."

[Noah]

I'm gonna quote my brother on this one:

If there IS a "God" and he sends me to an eternal place of torture & damnation called "Hell" - Then on my way down, I'll be flipping him the bird and saying "FUCK YOU ASSHOLE!!" - I mean what's he gonna do? Send me to hell? ;)

[scouse mac]

I cant remember who said it but, Hell is spending eternity trapped in a room with your friends (apparently).


For what its worth Hell, Heaven, God etc etc do not exist. There is no such thing and people who do spend time worshipping the same are wasting a whole chunk of their life.

[MichaelMyers]

Originally Posted by scouse mac

I cant remember who said it but, Hell is spending eternity trapped in a room with your friends (apparently).

John-Paul Sarte, No Exit. "Hell is other people."

[Shemonsterdevil]

Unlike the poster.... I have never been wrong. Hell is crowd control for the religious. For the rest of us and especially for horror fans it's the opportunity to create fear without suggestive imagery. Everyone's personal hell is different. Everyone's demon tortures them differently in a very personal way. It's cheap story telling... Though effective.

[Sculpt]

Originally Posted by cheebacheeba

I think that both heaven and hell are constructs of the imagination, and spread into something beyond that as it went further out into common "knowledge".

I DO believe that there's some reason, some...thing that happened to make ourselves, the animals, and the world around us evolve the way they are/did but I don't like to put a "man made" name or concept on it.

I don't do religion...I don't diss those that do, well, aside from the stupid ass fanatics that represent any given religious group poorly.
See, the one common theme I've heard is a thing with a lot of religions is how the Christians and Catholics etc would put it "Don't worship false idols"...that there statement, and a few of the aforementioned fanatics have been what's steered me clear of organised religion.
I mean...don't worship false idols...pretty much every "bible" has something like that thrown in there, and I just do not like the odds.

One thing I really dislike, is religion being bought into schooling - I honestly think that this is about as close to legalised brainwashing as you can get.
Religion is something a person ought to be told about the concept of, and if they care to "find" it, or further investigate, they ought to be allowed to do so in their own time.

Aside from, I consider religious texts to be at most, guidelines.
Sometimes a little misguided and out of date, but overall guidelines to not do shitty fucked up shit to others.

So, I try to live like that...because if there is something/someone out there watching over us as subjects or a pet project etc, I'd like to think that if what I'm doing already isn't good enough for them/it, well, I'm a better judge of character to want to be in their presence anyways.

cheebacheeba, I'm really interested in the subject matter, highlighted in your statements about human 'constructs of the imagination, & spread into something beyond that as it went further out into common "knowledge"'.

It brings to mind an exercise, where accomplished meditators were in front of a molecule of water that was being photographed with high magnification. One meditator per molecule, & would concentrate on compassion, hatred or confusion, etc., & project that at the water. The photographs revealed the shapes of the molecules were very different; & one may say subjectively, the form resembled the thought.

Then of course there's the concepts of the Observation Effect (observer affecting experiments), quantum physics, collective unconscious & synchronicity, telekinesis, apport (materialization), Unus Mundus, 'The Secret', relativism, etc. I think this 'projecting reality', in regards our current life, Hell & the afterlife, when applied to critical thinking & the objective physical universe, is a cautionary tale.

If we accept two or more individuals exist in the same physical reality -- consider two individuals, Sue & Dorothy, are moving toward each other. Dorothy is driving a car. Both individuals concentrate, believe & project their wills: Sue believes/perceives Dorothy & car do not exist or have no solid form in relation to herself. Dorothy believes/perceives Sue exists. When they meet one will be correct, & the other will not. Where two or more are, whatever dimension one is in, where there is relationship, there is an objective reality.

Imagine if you exist in a reality where only you really exist. My opinion is that would truly be a hell. Can real love exist without relationship, without two or more? I think love, friendship & relationship requires it. I don't want be without love.

You may be thinking of making projecting reality a matter of quantity. Such as if a million individuals conceive Hell is one thing, but only 999,999 conceive it something else, then the millions' conception wins the reality. Or each group gets their own reality. The problem immediately starts from there: because if this is the mechanism in which reality is formed, each of the individuals will certainly disagree on any of the infinite elements of these two new realities, so they fall apart.

The groups of people are either 'one' (or the non-one, Brahman of Hinduism), or more than one separate being. Separate beings occupying different positions & perspectives, & thus would project at least some fraction of 'differing reality', preventing them from coexisting in the same reality. On the other hand, if we are all 'one' (non-one), then there is only one objective reality. Either way two or more can’t exist in a ‘projected reality’ of Hell, afterlife or reality. Would you also think these are mutually exclusive?

I think the concept of a creator god holds a resolution to a quandary. God as the originator, the omnipotent one creates & sustains the objective reality, in any of its dimensions (life, afterlife, 'heaven', 'hell'). Individuals live in & affect it, but not create nor sustain it. This is good, in that, if a despicably cruel evil person is not restrained, we are eternal victims in their power.