New Controversial 'Marriage Question'

[Rotting Eye]

i used to have that mentality, for a while anyway. someday you just have to accept reality for what it is :P i know arguments can be brought up about slavery, civil rights, etc etc.. "well what if they hadn't done anything about it?" well, there is a slight difference in the matters :P

i wouldn't say this country sucks on SO many levels. that's kinda taking it to the extreme... i will agree that some things about the USA suck, but you have to admit for the most part, we have a lot of good things going for us here. you can't make EVERYONE happy at all once. just because you're unhappy with the way something is going, means someone somewhere else is happy with the way things are going

/shrug, i wouldn't knock on america until you've been elsewhere to learn how good things are here.

cept maybe in europe or canada heh. but i'm sure they have problems just as we do

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
shrug, i wouldn't knock on america until you've been elsewhere to learn how good things are here.

cept maybe in europe or canada heh. but i'm sure they have problems just as we do

Not "knocking", just jabbing a little...I DID say, "But, we all have to admit that we're STILL better off than most OTHER countries"...And I DO recognize America's 'good qualities'......I'm not talking about a desire for Eutopia here, just for a little justice, equality, understanding, and acceptance...It seemed that I read somewhere that we ALL had a right to 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness'...I could have been mistaken...



And now, I am REALLY gonna stop, because I'm agreeing with Rotting Eye....AND it's freaking me the hell out...


:p

[Rotting Eye]

mm, well as you said, compared to MOST other places, we are equal here. can't always appease everyone.

and yes, the constitution does say "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" but based on the founding fathers perspectives. but times change, and republicans need to recognize that fact heh

hey, yea i've calmed down since i used to post here huh? :p

that's cuz i made the best decision of my life last may heh. before then i was a vehement prick

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
hey, yea i've calmed down since i used to post here huh? :p

that's cuz i made the best decision of my life last may heh. before then i was a vehement prick

Hmm...A new man, huh?........This should be interesting.....



*waits for the 'instigators' to test that introspection*....lol



;)

[Gruesome]

and republicans need to recognize that fact heh

OOOO...he just went there....

This thread went straight from religion to politics......i won't touch this one..

no need to drag the Dems through any more mud....

[bwind22]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
If our country TRULY practices 'freedom of religion' and 'separation of church and state'...Why aren't Pagan, Wiccan, Native American, and all other 'ritualistic' forms of marriage accepted?

I was having a similar debate with a friend one time and he brought up the point that "Seperation of church and state' is the biggest myth around. It doesn't say that anywhere in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights."

Well, after he said that I decided to look into it, and you know what? He was right. It doesn't say it in there anywhere. (At least not that I could find.) Anyone know where in our country's documents, it actually says this passage?

What I mean is...If EVERYONE'S religion, is relevant and respected...WHY are only 'Christian' marriage ceremonies accepted by LAW?

It is because the term marriage is a Christian term. Wiccans can either get legally married by a justice of the peace or they could even start up their own tradition of something along the lines of marriage, but 'marriage' is, and has always been, a Christian sacrament/term.

How that Christian sacrament came to double as a legal definition is beyond me, but it happened. (This is where sep. of church & state would be nice. Religious terms should not double as legal definitions. It can only create problems... like the one we are presently discussing.)

[Rotting Eye]

religion and politics, the two seem to go hand in hand anyway, so eh

new man? i guess you could say that. more kicked back and relaxed. don't get me wrong, i still love a good debate, but intellectual debates are so much more fun :p and what's the use in being a prick, having friends is better than making enemies. for the most part anyway heh




anyway, does any document say seperation of church and state? i dunno, and now that you bring it up i wonder myself where it came from. although it was pushed on everyone all throughout school, that's all i remember

as for marriage being a christian term, i don't know, but as for the concept of marriage, that predates the formation of christianity by a longshot. hell, all of christianity is one giant ripoff of portions of everything else that predates it.

for example, i don't remember the entire history, but the fish that christians use? that's actually the symbol of a goddess from another religion, i believe she was the sex/fertility goddess. flip the fish on its side, and what does it look like? :P

it became a legal term because christians have their tendrils in anything and everything. -_- unfortunately

[urgeok]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
religion and politics, the two seem to go hand in hand anyway, so eh

new man? i guess you could say that. more kicked back and relaxed. don't get me wrong, i still love a good debate, but intellectual debates are so much more fun :p and what's the use in being a prick, having friends is better than making enemies. for the most part anyway heh




anyway, does any document say seperation of church and state? i dunno, and now that you bring it up i wonder myself where it came from. although it was pushed on everyone all throughout school, that's all i remember

as for marriage being a christian term, i don't know, but as for the concept of marriage, that predates the formation of christianity by a longshot. hell, all of christianity is one giant ripoff of portions of everything else that predates it.

for example, i don't remember the entire history, but the fish that christians use? that's actually the symbol of a goddess from another religion, i believe she was the sex/fertility goddess. flip the fish on its side, and what does it look like? :P

it became a legal term because christians have their tendrils in anything and everything. -_- unfortunately

the fish sign the christians use is sometimes accompanied with PAX inside which i believe means Peace and/or Jesus.

I'm a bit rusty on my religious studies :)

[newb]

Originally posted by urgeok
the fish sign the christians use is sometimes accompanied with PAX inside which i believe means Peace and/or Jesus.

I'm a bit rusty on my religious studies :)

Love to copy & paste


The fish outline is a logical symbol for the early Christian church to adopt. Fish play a major roll in the gospels. For example:
bullet Mark 1:17: "Come after Me, and I will make you become fishers of men."
bullet Matthew 12:40: "...Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
bullet Matthew 14:17: "And they said to Him, 'We have here only five loaves and two fish.'"
bullet Luke 5:6: "And when they had done this, they caught a great number of fish, and their net was breaking."
bullet Luke 24:42: "So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb."
bullet John 21:6: "And He said to them, 'Cast the net on the right side of the boat, and you will find some.' So they cast, and now they were not able to draw it in because of the multitude of fish."
bullet 1 Corinthians 15:39: "All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fish, and another of birds."

Some Christians believe that a second link between their religion and the fish symbol is seen in the Greek word for fish (ichthus, spelled: Iota Chi Theta Upsilon Sigma). That is an acrostic for "Jesus Christ, of God, the Son, the Savior" [Iesous (Jesus) CHristos (Christ) THeou (of God) Uiou (the Son) Soter (the Savior)]. An acrostic is an "arrangement of words in which the first letter of each line ordinarily combines with others to form a word or words or the alphabet." 1

The Apostles were often referred to as "fishers of men". Followers of Christianity were called Pisciculi; the root of this Latin word is "fish". The symbols of "sacremental fish, with wine and a basket of bread represents the Eucharist and the Last Supper in Christian art." 2 The symbol was simple to draw and was often used among Christians as a type of password during times of persecution by the Roman government. If two strangers met and were unsure whether each other was a Christian, one would draw an arc in the earth like:). If the other were a Christian, they would complete the symbol with a reverse arc: (), forming the outline of a fish.

In modern times, the fish outline symbol is experiencing a comeback. It is commonly seen in the form of a bumper sticker or casting mounted on the trunk lids of cars. The body of the symbol may be empty, or may contain a name ("Jesus" or "ICTUS"). This has inspired some Secularists, Atheists and promoters of the theory of evolution to mimic the Christian fish symbol with one of their own. It usually has "DARWIN" in the body of the fish, and little legs underneath. This has prompted "fish wars" between supporters of the secular and religious symbols. Reference 3 contains a humorous expose of the battle between the Darwin and Christian fish. It displays some new species such as the "Evolve Fish" (a fish with "EVOLVE" on its body and a wrench in one of its forepaws) and the "Shark Jesus Fish" (a shark that eats all types of Jesus Fish).

We also found a satirical essay "Experts concerned about backward Jesus fishes" which suggested, with tongue in cheek, that fish swimming to the right is "a duplicitous tool of Satan, the Lord of Lies...Our children are viewing these fish and are losing their grip on morality....These backwards fishes, and all their inherent evils could destroy a society." 13

[Rotting Eye]

i'm not really here to debate religion and go on and on about how i think it's a crock.

what i can do is point everyone in the direction of where you can go, if you're so inclined

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/index.php

forum loaded with scholars, educated people, etc etc.

but since i did bring up the subject of the fish, i'm only relaying what i've read. i'm sure there's plenty out there that contradicts it, just as newb has posted. but what i read said that christians stole the symbol of this goddess, flipped it on its side, filled it with letters, and called it their own.

believe what you want