And your next Top 100 compilation is...

[_____V_____]

Originally Posted by Sculpt

FYI - I just checked our 100 Years of Horror, the 1970 list (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php...7&postcount=22) (A Clockwork Orange is 1971), and Clockwork is not in the 1970's list. It's also not in the 1970's Honorable Mentions (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php...8&postcount=38). Being it's one of the best films of all-time (surely one of best in 70's), we obviously must have disallowed it -- said it wasn't a Horror film. And so, if we/HDC disallowed it as a Horror film, you think we should allow it in non-horror, and not let drop through the cracks?

It's in the 100 Years Of Horror compilation, under "HDC Members Specially Recommend...". Check again.

It's also at the top of the Sickest, Gorific, Disturbing and Controversial film compilation - the Visually Challenging 100.

Anyway, sfear has sent in his alternate choice. It's duly added to the Master List posted a few pages back.

[Sculpt]

Originally Posted by neverending

To be honest, I do, which is probably not fair. I can't off the top of my head think of one I would consider one of the 100 best films of all times; certainly not Dumbo or Lion King. Maybe Fantasia.

I think there's a natural discredit to animated films, maybe because their association with cartoons, which are for kids.

Some of the best animated films I've seen (that come to mind) are:

I consider these the best:
Yellow Submarine 1968
The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe 1979 (i see it's on youtube)
The Incredibles
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow 1949 (film short)

These are very good and personal favorites:
Horton Hears a Who! (1970)
Rikki Tikki Tavi 1975
The White Seal (1975)
Wizards 1977
The Hobbit 1977
How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966)

These are excellent films:
Fantasia 1940 (for the art)
Fantastic Planet (1973)
Rango 2011
Monsters Inc
Aladdin (1992)
The Lion King 1994
Pinocchio 1940
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Spirited Away 2001
Wall-e 2008
Toy Story 1995
A Bug's Life (1998)
Wallace and Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (1993)
Ice Age 2002

I think these are very good films:
Sleeping Beauty 1959
The Lorax (1972)
Charlotte's Web (1973)
Akira 1988
Ghost in the Shell 1995

[Sculpt]

Originally Posted by _____V_____

It's in the 100 Years Of Horror compilation, under "HDC Members Specially Recommend...". Check again.

It's also at the top of the Sickest, Gorific, Disturbing and Controversial film compilation - the Visually Challenging 100.

Anyway, sfear has sent in his alternate choice. It's duly added to the Master List posted a few pages back.

You got me really curious now. You're right, V, it is in Special Recommendations. That seemed really strange considering it's on the AFI list of 100 greatest films. I had to check the original debate thread (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php...&postcount=310). Interesting, A Clockwork Orange is not in the 1970's Master List, and naturally not in the leadoff Summation/debate page. I searched for the name of the film during the collection and discussion/debate posts, and it does not appear (making it unknown how it got in Recommendations).

The reason it wasn't in the 70's master list (the top standard you were using) is the imdb.com genre listings, A Clockwork Orange are listed as: Crime | Drama | Sci-Fi.

Anyway, it's your call, V. Officially, it was not included in our 100 Years of Horror competition. (I never considered it Horror.) I just had to find out what happen to it.

[roshiq]

Originally Posted by Sculpt

I think there's a natural discredit to animated films, maybe because their association with cartoons, which are for kids.

Some of the best animated films I've seen (that come to mind) are:

I consider these the best:
Yellow Submarine 1968
The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe 1979 (i see it's on youtube)
The Incredibles
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow 1949 (film short)

These are very good and personal favorites:
Horton Hears a Who! (1970)
Rikki Tikki Tavi 1975
The White Seal (1975)
Wizards 1977
The Hobbit 1977
How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966)

These are excellent films:
Fantasia 1940 (for the art)
Fantastic Planet (1973)
Rango 2011
Monsters Inc
Aladdin (1992)
The Lion King 1994
Pinocchio 1940
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Spirited Away 2001
Wall-e 2008
Toy Story 1995
A Bug's Life (1998)
Wallace and Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (1993)
Ice Age 2002

I think these are very good films:
Sleeping Beauty 1959
The Lorax (1972)
Charlotte's Web (1973)
Akira 1988
Ghost in the Shell 1995

And no Grave of the Fireflies & Up??!! :shocked:
IMO...If any animated film deserves to be in the Top 100 or its supporting list of honorable mentions, then that should be either GOTF or Up.

FYI...there's an animated film in my submitted Top 20 list.

[The Villain]

Originally Posted by neverending

To be honest, I do, which is probably not fair. I can't off the top of my head think of one I would consider one of the 100 best films of all times; certainly not Dumbo or Lion King. Maybe Fantasia.

Agree with you on Dumbo but not Fantasia or Lion King. Fantasia is overrated. Just a big art show.

Originally Posted by Sculpt

I think there's a natural discredit to animated films, maybe because their association with cartoons, which are for kids.

Some of the best animated films I've seen (that come to mind) are:

I consider these the best:
Yellow Submarine 1968
The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe 1979 (i see it's on youtube)
The Incredibles
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow 1949 (film short)

These are very good and personal favorites:
Horton Hears a Who! (1970)
Rikki Tikki Tavi 1975
The White Seal (1975)
Wizards 1977
The Hobbit 1977
How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966)

These are excellent films:
Fantasia 1940 (for the art)
Fantastic Planet (1973)
Rango 2011
Monsters Inc
Aladdin (1992)
The Lion King 1994
Pinocchio 1940
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Spirited Away 2001
Wall-e 2008
Toy Story 1995
A Bug's Life (1998)
Wallace and Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (1993)
Ice Age 2002

I think these are very good films:
Sleeping Beauty 1959
The Lorax (1972)
Charlotte's Web (1973)
Akira 1988
Ghost in the Shell 1995

I agree with you on Lion King, Snow White and The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Both Lion King and Snow White were big movies for Disney and Legend of Sleepy Hollow is a great story that's become a Halloween classic. I'd also include Toy Story 3 which is one of the only animated movies to elicit an emotional response from me and Nightmare Before Christmas.

[neverending]

Fantasia is overrated. Just a big art show.

Now, I know you've seen silent movies, so you're not unfamiliar with the telling of stories without dialogue. Why then are you not able to recognize that each segment in Fantasia tells a story (with the exception of the abstract segment), and all without the use of title cards, and accompanied by some of the most breathtaking music in the world?

[Kandarian Demon]

I don't think Fantasia is overrated either, in my personal opinion it's amazing in every way.

I'm not prejudiced against animated movies, or "family movies" for that matter, which I think I've already mentioned that I have a tendency to prefer when I'm not watching horror.

Movies have the power to touch us in so many ways, to make us feel and think... and I think it's a shame that for a movie to be taken seriously, it has to be dark, pessimistic, dramatic, or have lots of violence and explotions.

And when I say "sad", it's because it's kind of like saying that if a movie can make you feel happy, laugh, remember your inner child/childhood, remind you of your appreciation of your family - that's somehow not valid, and something that should be ridiculed no matter how well the movie was done, or how artful the animation is.

When a dark movie with a negative messages tells a story that is set in an imaginary world, it's a masterpiece - if a happy movie does the same thing, it's just a stupid, unrealistic fairy tale for babies.

The more miserable a movie makes you feel, the greater art it is - or so it seems. Yes, we all know the world is a horrible place... and there are plenty of movies to remind us of that. There is a time and a place for that... but I will never understand why it's so bad, why it can't be art, when a movie has the power to take us away from all of that, just for a little while.

It's the same with music - happy songs are always looked down upon. A song and it's lyrics are just not art unless it tells us about human suffering and makes us want to kill ourselves. How dare anyone be positive and call themselves artists!

I also don't get why artwork is suddenly not art anymore because it "moves".

This post is not directed at anyone, I'm just thinking out loud about something that I'll just never understand.

[metternich1815]

Originally Posted by Sculpt

I think there's a natural discredit to animated films, maybe because their association with cartoons, which are for kids.

Some of the best animated films I've seen (that come to mind) are:

I consider these the best:
Yellow Submarine 1968
The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe 1979 (i see it's on youtube)
The Incredibles
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow 1949 (film short)

These are very good and personal favorites:
Horton Hears a Who! (1970)
Rikki Tikki Tavi 1975
The White Seal (1975)
Wizards 1977
The Hobbit 1977
How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966)

These are excellent films:
Fantasia 1940 (for the art)
Fantastic Planet (1973)
Rango 2011
Monsters Inc
Aladdin (1992)
The Lion King 1994
Pinocchio 1940
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Spirited Away 2001
Wall-e 2008
Toy Story 1995
A Bug's Life (1998)
Wallace and Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (1993)
Ice Age 2002

I think these are very good films:
Sleeping Beauty 1959
The Lorax (1972)
Charlotte's Web (1973)
Akira 1988
Ghost in the Shell 1995

There are alot of films on your list that I really enjoyed, but do not know that I would include on a top 100 list of all time.

Originally Posted by neverending

To be honest, I do, which is probably not fair. I can't off the top of my head think of one I would consider one of the 100 best films of all times; certainly not Dumbo or Lion King. Maybe Fantasia.

I agree with you on the Lion King because I just never connected with that film. As for Dumbo, I do not know if I would really put it in the top 100 movies of all time, but I do think it is one of the best animated films and I actually watched it after I was a child. It is a classic with an excellent exploration of racism. As for Fantasia, I agree with you and I will agree that that film is definitely more deserving to be on the list. It is not overrated by any stretch of the imagination. I could definitely get on board with that film.

Originally Posted by The Villain

Agree with you on Dumbo but not Fantasia or Lion King. Fantasia is overrated. Just a big art show.



I agree with you on Lion King, Snow White and The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Both Lion King and Snow White were big movies for Disney and Legend of Sleepy Hollow is a great story that's become a Halloween classic. I'd also include Toy Story 3 which is one of the only animated movies to elicit an emotional response from me and Nightmare Before Christmas.

I disagree with you on Dumbo, the Lion King, and Fantasia, as discussed above. I agree with you on Snow White (I even mentioned that when I made recommendations, that I thought it was definitely worthy of inclusion as well). I have not seen Legend of Sleepy Hollow (wasn't that included on the horror list?) or Toy Story 3. I agree that Nightmare Before Christmas was good, I do not know if I would include it on this list though.

[The Villain]

Originally Posted by neverending

Now, I know you've seen silent movies, so you're not unfamiliar with the telling of stories without dialogue. Why then are you not able to recognize that each segment in Fantasia tells a story (with the exception of the abstract segment), and all without the use of title cards, and accompanied by some of the most breathtaking music in the world?

Yeah i might be being a little unfair. I was really young when i saw it and unable to appreciate works of art like that. I would've hated some of the silent movies as a kid that i love know. I think i'd have to rewatch it before making more of a opinion about it. I'll have to do that with a lot of films were talking about.

[Sculpt]

Originally Posted by neverending

Now, I know you've seen silent movies, so you're not unfamiliar with the telling of stories without dialogue. Why then are you not able to recognize that each segment in Fantasia tells a story (with the exception of the abstract segment), and all without the use of title cards, and accompanied by some of the most breathtaking music in the world?

Well said, Neverending. I need to see Fantasia as a full adult now. We know animation (and special effects that very like it) is sometimes required to convey concepts, illustrations & worlds. The Neverending Story hit me in the heart & head with it's concept of nothing, devotion & love. If you haven't seen it, or in a long time, The Yellow Submarine plays the concept of nothing, compassion, devotion & love.

Originally Posted by roshiq

And no Grave of the Fireflies & Up??!! :shocked:
IMO...If any animated film deserves to be in the Top 100 or its supporting list of honorable mentions, then that should be either GOTF or Up.

FYI...there's an animated film in my submitted Top 20 list.

There are other animated films I think are really good that I didn't list (Nightmare Before Christmas, Toy Stories, Ninja Scroll, Beauty Beast, ect), I didn't want to make the list too big. I enjoyed UP, but more intrigued by GOTF.

Thank you for mentioning Grave of the Fireflies! I never heard of it. It'll be my next film to watch -- and hope you join me and let yourself get blown away by Yellow Submarine.

Originally Posted by The Villain

Yeah i might be being a little unfair. I was really young when i saw it and unable to appreciate works of art like that. I would've hated some of the silent movies as a kid that i love know. I think i'd have to rewatch it before making more of a opinion about it. I'll have to do that with a lot of films were talking about.
.................................................. .............................
I'd also include Toy Story 3 which is one of the only animated movies to elicit an emotional response from me and Nightmare Before Christmas.

You're right, Villain. I was too young when I saw Fantasia. I need to see it again.

And I know what you mean about special animated films that have dove down deep to strike a enveloping emotional response that resonates to everything. If you haven't seen Yellow Submarine as an adult, open a door to this pure art of love.

Originally Posted by Kandarian Demon

I don't think Fantasia is overrated either, in my personal opinion it's amazing in every way.

I'm not prejudiced against animated movies, or "family movies" for that matter, which I think I've already mentioned that I have a tendency to prefer when I'm not watching horror.

Movies have the power to touch us in so many ways, to make us feel and think... and I think it's a shame that for a movie to be taken seriously, it has to be dark, pessimistic, dramatic, or have lots of violence and explosions.

And when I say "sad", it's because it's kind of like saying that if a movie can make you feel happy, laugh, remember your inner child/childhood, remind you of your appreciation of your family - that's somehow not valid, and something that should be ridiculed no matter how well the movie was done, or how artful the animation is.

When a dark movie with a negative messages tells a story that is set in an imaginary world, it's a masterpiece - if a happy movie does the same thing, it's just a stupid, unrealistic fairy tale for babies.

The more miserable a movie makes you feel, the greater art it is - or so it seems. Yes, we all know the world is a horrible place... and there are plenty of movies to remind us of that. There is a time and a place for that... but I will never understand why it's so bad, why it can't be art, when a movie has the power to take us away from all of that, just for a little while.

It's the same with music - happy songs are always looked down upon. A song and it's lyrics are just not art unless it tells us about human suffering and makes us want to kill ourselves. How dare anyone be positive and call themselves artists!

I also don't get why artwork is suddenly not art anymore because it "moves".

This post is not directed at anyone, I'm just thinking out loud about something that I'll just never understand.

Wow, Kan, you nailed it, and said so well. It's true, why do we promote the dark hopeless nihilism as high art and discredit the great tellings of the more difficult art of: opening up to risk, the work of deeply understanding concepts/people we find ourselves uncomfortable/fractious with, endevears of self sacrifice and love? (Have you seen Yellow Sub as an adult?)

Originally Posted by metternich1815

As for Dumbo, I do not know if I would really put it in the top 100 movies of all time, but I do think it is one of the best animated films and I actually watched it after I was a child. It is a classic with an excellent exploration of racism. As for Fantasia, I agree with you and I will agree that that film is definitely more deserving to be on the list. It is not overrated by any stretch of the imagination. I could definitely get on board with that film.

I agree with you on Snow White (I even mentioned that when I made recommendations, that I thought it was definitely worthy of inclusion as well). I have not seen Legend of Sleepy Hollow (wasn't that included on the horror list?) or Toy Story 3.

Dumbo is a very unique film and story. I love "Elephants on Parade". I've used that on my radio show with extra effects, very trippy.

The Legend of Sleepy Hollow is beautiful, a lot of fun and actually scary. Narration by Basil Rathbone and Bing Crosby. It's about 30 mins. I'm sure you can figure out a way to see it. It was originally the 2nd story in the film The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad.

Mett, if you've read reply so far, I hate to sound like a broken record, but the intellectual concepts, symbolism, imagery in Yellow Submarine are fantastic. Classic psychedelic art, and moving message. If you haven't seen it (as adult), I recommend higher than any film.