Touchy Subject

[ferretchucker]

Originally Posted by bloodrayne

Yeah, If someone was shooting at ME and people were dying all around me, I'd say it was time for ME to get the hell outta Dodge, too...

yeh, but you're not a soldier are you? As you said, it's their job and they signed up for it. These people arent just ordinary men and women, they're trained for war and can deal with things better. If they think something's wrong, then it is.

I'm sorry bloodrayne but I jus can't understand how you can have this point of view. War is never an answer and the fact that it was for a stupid reason is even worse. You're entitled to your opinion but seriously, i thought you were better.

[novakru]

Life is so very precious.
If we only had a glimmer as to what that really meant, there would be no need for abortion, war, murder, hate....

A woman who chooses abortion has an extremely tough choice and I really do not think she goes into this decision lightly nor forgets... she ultimately has to live with her choice and if you think that's easy, think again.
I believe a woman or MAN has to choose this for themselves though.

That being said, I do personally get a little pissed when I hear someone is willingly getting rid of their baby and here's why:
All the women that can't have children or can't afford expensive procedures to have them...how heartbreaking that must be.
I know there's adoption and thank god for that but the loss is still profound.

And women, me included, that have lost babies to miscarriages...you have no idea how painful it is...not only is it your body completely betraying you but the excitement of finding out your pregnant when you REALLY wanted that baby!!... and then...bam... baby gone... dreams gone... the excitment of that new little precious life gone...omg.


Watch 'Life in the Womb' when it comes on again. (I think that's the title, I could be wrong.)

[jenna26]

I'm pro choice because I do believe there are situations where it is better for all of those involved. But I personally do not believe I would ever choose to have an abortion.

I can forgive one mistake, and I can understand where there are situations where the mother is too young or where a woman has been raped. And incest, for example, think about a girl who has been molested and raped by an uncle for years having to carry his child to term, that's just cruel.

BUT I believe there are women that abuse it, and DO take it rather lightly. I have known three women in my life that had several abortions each. What is so damn hard about taking the proper precautions or *gasp* NOT having sex until you are in stable, loving relationship or have a stable, loving home? I actually had a woman one time ask me why I was choosing to abstain from sex during that time (I went several years, and yes I survived). I explained that was one of my several reasons, I didn't want to have an accident, and bring a child into the world when I just wasn't ready. She actually said these words to me......"you could JUST have an abortion".....and went on to explain that she had had two herself. It just didn't seem like it was a big deal to her. And it made me very angry. Like Nova pointed out, there are so many women that would love the chance to have their own children, and can't. And women that have several abortions, who use abortion as birth control essentially, have no respect for themselves, their bodies, or all of those many women out there.

There seems to be so little personal responsibility anymore. So what the responsibility is unequal between men and women? Yes, the women go through the physical part, and it is easier for the men to duck out.....and that isn't fair, but VERY little in life in fair. Personally, I say you just deal with it. You made the choice to have sex, you knew the chance you were taking, so deal with it and don't take a life just because it just isn't fair.

I will end with this, my mom had two friends. Both of these friends didn't want children, decided at a young age they weren't cut out to be mothers. Both were married. One had several abortions, one has never gotten pregnant once. Now, what makes more sense, that one was just lucky, or that she actually just took the proper precautions and lived her life responsibly?

Like I said, one mistake I can forgive, and I do believe it is an individual choice, and I have no right to make that choice for anyone. But I also think that is time for people to take some responsibility for their actions. And I know choosing to have an abortion would be against my OWN moral standards. I don't expect everyone else to feel about it the same way I do however.

[The STE]

Geez, I skip from page 1 to the end of the thread and suddenly it goes from talking about abortions to talking about war.


Anywho, personally, if I were in the position, I wouldn't get an abortion. Doesn't mean someone else should. I'm not saying "Oops, damn, I didn't pull out in time. Hang on, smoochy-poo, lemme get the coat hanger" is okay, because it's not. I do not condone anybody using "smoochy-poo" as a pet name in the non-ironic sense. But if someone uses every precaution, uses a condom or a diaphragm or the pill or even gets a vasectomy, and the decision is made to get an abortion, and they're prepaired to deal with the moral issues during and after the act, then I don't see why other people should tell them they can't. Yeah, you can't get pregnant if you don't have sex, and I'll ignore the rape/incest hypotheticals for now, but if someone doesn't want to ever have kids, they should, what, never have sex ever? Just hire prostitutes? Saying "You know you could get pregnant by having sex, you should've kept it in your pants" when they made an effort to not have kids isn't fair. People who skydive know the risks, but they're not jumping out of the plan without a parachute.

And yes, the fetus has no say. But that's only because it has no say. It's a fetus. For the first while it doesn't have lungs or a spinal cord. Now, I don't remember much from biology class, but I remember that humans are mammalian, and mammals are defined by, among other things, lungs and spinal cords. No, you don't have a fish in your womb. Nobody said you did, that's a stupid argument. You have a fetus in there. It's not a self-sustaining life form, it's closer biologically to a parasitic life form. If you don't want to get rid of it, bully for you, don't. I wouldn't either. But that's no reason to make a law about it.

I think as far as the abortion/death penalty thing, I'm the exact opposite of Rayne. Well, I'm for the death penalty in principle. What they did to their victems should be done to them. But the judicial system is not flawless, innocent people are put in jail more often than I'm comfortable with, and I don't have enough faith in the legal system to support it putting people to death.

[ferretchucker]

I am definetely pro choice but I think whether it's right or not is down to the circumsances. Two years ago my mum was pregnant and then had a miscarriage at 6 weeks. It affected us all and yes, it is painful, so the thought that people can just give up a baby is a bit annoying. But for abou the millionth time it depends on the circumstances.

[jenna26]

I agree that the option should be there. But there are plenty of people that do NOT take the proper precautions and then get pregnant....and what, they are shocked? Despite what some people would say, most people with any sense are educated enough to know what causes pregnancy and how to prevent it. And yes, I do believe if you can't have sex responsibly then you simply shouldn't have sex. Not just because of pregnancy, but also because of STD's. I have known very few women to get pregnant while they were using a reliable form of birth control. Well, I have known none to tell me, hey I was on the pill and we were using a condom and I still got pregnant. Its usually.....shit, we forgot to the condom....and I don't like the pill.....and we were in the moment....:rolleyes: If an accident does happen, and yes, accidents do, I would never tell a woman she HAS to have that child, or feel that I have that right to make that decision for her. But it isn't something someone should just do in place of showing some sense, and living a responsible life. As Nova said, life is precious. And to me, having multiple abortions is cold and totally irresponsible. Hell, depending on the situation and the woman, having ONE can be.

And I agree with STE about the death penalty, I used to support it for practical reasons, I admit. But I have seen too many Cold Case Files, the judicial system is too unbalanced and unreliable, as are eyewitness accounts, and if even one innocent person is put to death, it isn't worth it. But then there are those like Ted Bundy, where there is absolute no doubt and they are particularly heinous crimes well.....I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep about that. I'm just all over the place......;)

[stubbornforgey]

Originally Posted by paws the great

Blame Saddam Hussein....it's his war!He had twelve years to comply with the U.N. resolutions.


He never complied!



"We make war that we may live in peace" - Aristotle

BULL FUCKEN SHIT!!!!!!

12 YEARS TO COMPLY WITH U.N RESOLUTIONS.

1st excuse for invading Iraq...
oh they have stocks of weapons of mass destruction

2nd excuse for the invasion...
Saddam mistreated his ppl so we are going in to oust him out.

and now this..
what next..??the children of Iraq won't eat spaghetti and meatballs..??

As for the Aristotle quote: puhlease!!
how the hell can anyone justify the loss of many innocent lives..or
come up with the lame excuse such as..'there will always be casualties of war..
These so called casualties who were one day enjoying a typical family life..to have some fuck send in his big boys to test his new toy..and in less than 20 minutes ..wipe away these casualties dreams of someday being a writer or an actor or maybe prime minister.
And how the fuck can any of you sit back and say ..oh its ok...cos our govt says so..blame another countries leader who has been executed already..
all because he wouldnt comply with the UN resolutions.
If the UN were actually involved with this war...do you think ..there answer would be to wipe out a whole civilization..??NO.

America wants control of the oil cos thier supply is nearly dried up!!!
Australia is there because they are promised trade sanctions.
Britains there because of the same deal with Australia.

[paws the great]

Originally Posted by stubbornforgey

BULL FUCKEN SHIT!!!!!!

America wants control of the oil cos thier supply is nearly dried up!!!
Australia is there because they are promised trade sanctions.
Britains there because of the same deal with Australia.

In (1990) the U.S. with 30 nations liberate Kuwait....the U.S. remained in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait to deter another invasion by Iraq.

In (1996) Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda declare holy war on the U.S.



The U.S.A. had it's military in the middle east becouse of Saddam Hussein!As long as Saddam and his Ba'th party had control of Iraq.......the U.S. would have to stay in the middle east to protect the region!


"It is the duty of every tribe in the Arabian Peninsula to fight JIHAD and cleanse the LAND from these crusader occupiers"- Osama Bin Laden (1996)

[paws the great]

Originally Posted by ferretchucker

War is never an answer.

Glad "Winston Churchill" didn't feel the same way?;)




"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile,hoping it will eat him last"

[Dante'sInferno]

War will never end,It's in our nature to destroy ourselves.