Touchy Subject

[ferretchucker]

but it wasn't our fight was it. It was happening in their country, so going in there, taking it over and letting innocent people die doesn't seem like a good idea to me. And let's not forget the countless friendly fires on our side.

[bloodrayne]

Originally Posted by ferretchucker

but it wasn't our fight was it. It was happening in their country, so going in there, taking it over and letting innocent people die doesn't seem like a good idea to me. And let's not forget the countless friendly fires on our side.

If they are hell-bent on killing us, it IS our fight...If we don't stop them THERE, they will come here

As for friendly-fire, that happens in war, too (No, that doesn't make it suck any less)...Every enlisted person CHOSE to enlist, and upon enlisting vowed to die protecting their country...No one forced anyone to join the military...England agreed to help us out...I'd say Al-Qaeda is probably a bigger threat to you guys, because they're much closer to you...Who wants to take that chance?

[stubbornforgey]

Originally Posted by bloodrayne

Iraq was already 'our enemy'...They (most of them) want us dead...Because we (most of us) do not live the way they do...

None of the countries surrounding them 'invaded their country' but they are constantly killing THEM, too

We need weapons to protect ourselves...They want weapons to kill everyone...Hussein killed over 6,000 of his OWN people with chemical weapons

I am not getting this thread.
How can anyone compare the war in Iraq to the abortion debate..??


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/...ectid=10438017

how the fuck can you justify this..??
Whose the one supplying Iraq with the weapons to fight back with..
Double standards don't you think.??

war is money..and this is why America and will always make sure there will always be a war.



Bush doesn't want to admit that his real purpose for the invasion of Iraq has nothing to do with Suddam..its all about controlling the oil.

Lets admit it..if a war broke out in America today..or anywhere in the other parts of the western world TODAY..
do you think our head of states stand side by side with the soldiers to defend its ppl..??
NO FUCKEN WAY!!!They would be whisked away to a safe hiding place and we would be left to fight off bullets with a tennis racket.

[PR3SSUR3]

Their way of life is very different from ours...I'm not saying that being different is wrong, I'm just saying that THEIR differences are DANGEROUS to US and their surrounding countries...Their kids don't have a chance as it is...SOOO

In order for us to be SAFE, they have to STOP trying to kill us (and themselves, and each other, and everyone around them) and stop training their children to do that, too...However, they do not WANT to stop, and until they can be either persuaded or FORCED to stop, how will this ever end?

People are being killed in Iraq because they are a VERY serious threat to us, and just about the entire world (the children are killed on accident)...Babies are being killed here, because they're an inconvenience (the babies are killed on purpose)

Iraq was already 'our enemy'...They (most of them) want us dead...Because we (most of us) do not live the way they do...

None of the countries surrounding them 'invaded their country' but they are constantly killing THEM, too

We need weapons to protect ourselves...They want weapons to kill everyone...Hussein killed over 6,000 of his OWN people with chemical weapons

If they are hell-bent on killing us, it IS our fight...If we don't stop them THERE, they will come here

Since around 80% of Iraqis view the continuing American liberation mission as occupation, the continued presence there must be because the public do not know what is good for them. A similar number of the US military serving in Iraq think they should be gone by now. Other 'unfixed' continents have a far worse child-soldier policy, and don't forget your recently resigned Defence Secretary was a keen supplier of weapons and tactics to Iraq and the Saddam Hussein regime. The child-soldier strategy was introduced into Iraqi conflicts during American support for the invasion of Iran.

Clearly things are not quite as black and white, including Iraq already being the enemy of the United States with nonexistent weapons of mass destruction and unconfirmed harbouring of Al-Qaeda, and including your statement that most Iraqis want most Americans dead - what is your source of information?

[ferretchucker]

I don't have the smallest thought that the July 7th bombings would have happened if the war hadn't. And no, England didn't agree, the guys incharge did. Do you know why, because they lick george bush's arse and if he's doing it they want to. And isn't a bit of a coincidence that the country we chose to invade has masses and masses of oil? Those iraqis were just living their lives, how often did they strike us? How many people did it from that entire country? The numbers are few. They were taught in defense because their idiotic leader thought war was good. I consider blaming the an country for what the leader thinks is wrong. Especially considering many of Hitlers germany didn't agree with the war, but what happens if you run? You get shot. do you know how low the numbers for army enrollment have got? Why do you think that is? These people sign up and do what they're told. It all comes down to the stupid fucking leaders. That's all I have to say on the matter.

[chaibill]

When did Iraq become are enemy? when we didn't have a good war in some time and needed a place to spend some weapons, so the people that make the weapons in theUSA didn't loose their jobs. remamber when we use to sell weapons to Iraq and shake hands and stuff oh those were the days.
so next will be North Korea and Iran

[paws the great]

Originally Posted by ferretchucker

but it wasn't our fight was it. It was happening in their country, so going in there, taking it over and letting innocent people die doesn't seem like a good idea to me. And let's not forget the countless friendly fires on our side.

Blame Saddam Hussein....it's his war!He had twelve years to comply with the U.N. resolutions.


He never complied!



"We make war that we may live in peace" - Aristotle

[paws the great]

Originally Posted by chaibill

When did Iraq become our enemy?
.

When Iraq invaded Kuwait.

[bloodrayne]

Originally Posted by stubbornforgey

Bush doesn't want to admit that his real purpose for the invasion of Iraq has nothing to do with Suddam..its all about controlling the oil.

There's plenty of oil In Saudi Arabia and other places in the middle east, and we have quite a bit of our own...I'd say if we had to go through so much in one tiny country, it just wouldn't be worth it

Originally Posted by stubbornforgey

Lets admit it..if a war broke out in America today..or anywhere in the other parts of the western world TODAY..
do you think our head of states stand side by side with the soldiers to defend its ppl..??

No, because that's not the job they signed on for...The soldiers are called 'soldiers' for a reason...The cooks wouldn't be fighting either

Originally Posted by PR3SSUR3

A similar number of the US military serving in Iraq think they should be gone by now.

Yeah, If someone was shooting at ME and people were dying all around me, I'd say it was time for ME to get the hell outta Dodge, too...

Originally Posted by PR3SSUR3

Other 'unfixed' continents have a far worse child-soldier policy

This is true

Originally Posted by PR3SSUR3

don't forget your recently resigned Defence Secretary was a keen supplier of weapons and tactics to Iraq and the Saddam Hussein regime.

That was a different time, for a different scenario, they needed help against Iran...You've never had a 'friend' who eventually became an 'enemy'?

Originally Posted by PR3SSUR3

Clearly things are not quite as black and white

That's true of many things...Can't disagree with that

Originally Posted by PR3SSUR3

including Iraq already being the enemy of the United States

Iraq is overrun with religious extremists...According to their (the extremists interpretations of) 'religion', we (and many others) are enemies of Allah...And...Enemies of Allah must be killed

Originally Posted by PR3SSUR3

with nonexistent weapons of mass destruction and unconfirmed harbouring of Al-Qaeda

The weapons were there, Hussein used them against his own people...He refused (for YEARS) to allow inspectors to see his cache...Why would he do that if he had nothing to hide?...Especially when faced with the threat of punishment and losing so many privileges?...America let the entire WORLD know its every move...They knew what America planned to do, and when they planned to do it...Hell, they even watched the planes take off on television...Tactically, it was extremely stupid...But, everything has to be done 'up front', right?...So, they had plenty of time to get rid of everything, and plenty of people willing to help them do it

As for Al-Qaeda...They're STILL there

Originally Posted by PR3SSUR3

including your statement that most Iraqis want most Americans dead - what is your source of information?

I already explained what I meant by that (the whole 'enemies of Allah' thing), but if you want a source...Let me know what sources YOU trust, and who you feel can be believed to tell the entire truth, without putting a spin on anything...Then I'll try to locate something from that source

The accuracy of just about anything can be disputed...Especially when even history books have been doctored (we know this to be true, too...But, I don't have a specific source for THAT either...)...Guess I just have to say, this is what I believe to be true

[PR3SSUR3]

It is difficult to swallow the American U-turn on chemical weapons usage, since we know it was not only quite happy to stand by and see them used on Iranian soldiers, but also to continue supplying weapons and tactics in the knowledge that the Saddam Hussein regime had started gassing its own civilians. This is from the senior DIA officer at the time.

In a 1994 report, pathogenic and toxigenic materials were stated as been exported from the US to Iraq. There were 70 shipments, including of Anthrax, to Iraqi government agencies - the same chemicals recovered by UN weapons inspectors from their biological warfare programme. There are more examples of US supplies of money and chemical agents from recognised and reliable sources I can provide, but I don't think that is the issue here.

In helping Saddam Hussein fight back with dirty bombs in a war he started in the first place, the USA had, out of fear of Iran's strengthening and specifically their oil politics, created quite a monster. The 'Axis of Evil', the 'War on Terror' rings like tin.

It is perhaps understandable that these phrases not only give terrorism more significance, but also breed homegrown opinions like most Iraqis want most Americans dead. Do they?

The Program on International Policy Attitudes conducted a poll last year, which suggested most Iraqis now want US forces out very soon, most Iraqis now support attacks on US troops because they fear the US wants permant bases there (this support would halve if there was a withdrawal), but in spite of these increased figures there is no reflection of growing support for Al-Qaeda, which is rejected by almost all Shias and Kurds and most Sunnis.

Only such extremists will - hence the term - want to interpret The Qur'an as an excuse for violence upon people in countries like America and other perceived apostates. The manager of news channel Al-Arabya says not all muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are muslims - which sounds reasonable enough. But surveys have shown that most muslims denounce actions such as the September 11th attacks, more recognising defensive jihad on their muslim neighbours.

Iraq isn't really an enemy of America - the small percentage of religious extremists yes, but most of the Iraqi people want to live and let live. Likewise most Iraqis do not want to kill Americans - just the individuals they see as becoming occupiers forever trying to clean up after what their forebears helped flourish in the first place.

You can reflect on the polled statistics and statements of fact, or you can of course draw conclusions from government propaganda and media angling.