Who would you like to see as a president in the future?

[mothermold]

bernie mac.
:D

[bloodrayne]

I have read this entire thread and I have to say that you are ALL arguing an invalid point...

Christianity, or any other religion, has never been "taught" in any public school...Evolution (The DENIAL of Christianity) IS taught in public schools...Placing the Ten Commandments where they can be seen, and saying the Pledge Of Allegiance is NOT teaching anyone about God...The Ten Commandments are basically a good code of ethics for EVERYONE to consider, and pledging your allegiance to your country is about PATRIOTISM and standing united..NOT a "lesson" in Christianity...

Damn...It is SCARY, when I have to be the one to present the voice of reason:rolleyes:

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
Gothic-Chick -- as I said before, if you want your kid to learn about God, teach your child yourself or take your child to church. It is totally the discretion of the parent as to how they want to raise their child in regards to ideas of religion and morality. Not the government. Your children are exposed to god in church, and at home. Why at school, where other parents with beliefs different than yours send their children? Arioch is right. If you were a Christian living in a predominantly Hindu country, you would have reservations about sending your child to the public schools if they stressed Hinduism as the path to truth. You would probably argue, in this case, that they remain neutral in the case of religion (or, you could argue that they should teach Christianity -- but that would be a losing argument. They would simply say that Christianity is false, and Hinduism is truth. Then you both would run around in circles not being able to prove that either one of you is right.)

Religion has no place in public schools. If you want to raise your child a Christian, do so at home and take them church.

Hey man, I never said I wanted my kids to learn religion in school, in fact they don't. The only thing around here (and I am smack dab in the middle of the bible belt)even mentioned in school about God would be the pledge of allegiance. Which has nothing to do with any religion. I'm just saying, people who feel so strongly about their kids not hearing the mention of God or Halloween for that matter should consider finding a school that fits their needs instead of trying to change the public school that the majority go along with.

When my daughter was in Kindergarten there was a mother who was all in a ridiculous tizzy about the upcoming Halloween party. The kids were going to have punch and cookies and decorate little Halloween pins ( a craft I brought in) There were 18 kids in all. Finally I had to look at the woman and say there are 17 sets of parents who find no harm in this. Why not keep your kid home that day instead of trying to ruin things for everyone else?

To this day that poor kid of hers is a total outcast at school because of his parents constant interference in matters at school that are totally harmless. I'm telling you as I sit here if either one of my kids schools decided to have a day of learning about Hinduism, or Buda, or any other bullshit institutionalized religion which I hate all of them equally I would honestly have no problem with it. However how we discussed it at the end of the day at the dinner table at my house is a totally different thing..

But if their schools turned into say a catholic( insert any religion here) school I'd home school in a minute without trying to change the school to suit my needs. ( I couldn't put them in private school because they are all religious based around here)

I hate institutionalized religion in any form. It just seems absurd for anyone to assume theirs is correct and all others are wrong. I think it was all created to control the masses but that's another topic entirely...


My kids are only mine for a short time and I don't want to fuck them up. It's a heavy load I carry here as a parent to try and make the right choices for them until they are old enough to make them for themselves. They don't need me bitching about every single thing going on in school that I don't like... they just need both sides of the coin.


My Motto is Guide them and kiss them when they fall, but don't mold them into who you think they should be.

religious tollerance should be taught to every human being on this planet not one religion!


www.religioustolerance.org

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
I have read this entire thread and I have to say that you are ALL arguing an invalid point...

Christianity, or any other religion, has never been "taught" in any public school...Evolution (The DENIAL of Christianity) IS taught in public schools...Placing the Ten Commandments where they can be seen, and saying the Pledge Of Allegiance is NOT teaching anyone about God...The Ten Commandments are basically a good code of ethics for EVERYONE to consider, and pledging your allegiance to your country is about PATRIOTISM and standing united..NOT a "lesson" in Christianity...

Damn...It is SCARY, when I have to be the one to present the voice of reason:rolleyes:

I totally agree!

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
I have read this entire thread and I have to say that you are ALL arguing an invalid point...

Christianity, or any other religion, has never been "taught" in any public school...Evolution (The DENIAL of Christianity) IS taught in public schools...Placing the Ten Commandments where they can be seen, and saying the Pledge Of Allegiance is NOT teaching anyone about God...The Ten Commandments are basically a good code of ethics for EVERYONE to consider, and pledging your allegiance to your country is about PATRIOTISM and standing united..NOT a "lesson" in Christianity...

Damn...It is SCARY, when I have to be the one to present the voice of reason:rolleyes:

You calling evolution the "DENIAL" of Christianity is not the voice of reason. The Theory of Evolution happens to be the foundational theory for all of the Biological sciences. Species evolve. This is a fact. And I think a good science classroom should teach facts, regardless if they vaguely contradict someone's theological beliefs. If what you believe doesn't jibe with the facts, maybe you need reevaluate your beliefs. This is what education is all about! If you read Genesis, you'll see that plants were growing all over the planet before the sun was even formed ... so will you argue with a Biology teacher when they tell your kids that plants need sunlight to grow? Or, should that Biology teacher check herself all the time and say: "Unless you believe in God, through which all things are possible" every now and then?
And the Ten Commandments being a good code of ethics for "EVERYONE" is far from reasonable as well. I'll admit that there are several commandments that I agree with, but there are some that have nothing to do with ethics or morality at all. The first three, for example: I am the Lord thy God and thou shalt have no other ... no graven images ... no taking the Lord's name in vain. These are all well and good, if you want your Chrisitian child to show the proper respect to your God. Then there's the one about setting aside the sabbath and keeping it holy. My family does not believe that any days are more "holy", or profane, than others. The other ones are okay, but pretty confusingly simple: thou shalt not kill (how about in self-defense?), honor thy mother and father (what if you have abusive parents?), don't commit adultery (ok ... we can keep from doing that), don't even think about wanting your neighbors cattle or his wife (well ... that we can't help. You're going to condemn us for our thoughts??)
As far as the Pledge of Allegiance being uttered in school, I have no problem with it. But, keep in mind that the phrase "under God" was not in the original pledge. The original pledge was as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' The author considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ] In 1954 congress, after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, decided to add "under God" in the pledge, thus making it both a patriotic oath and a public prayer. Most of it is good, but we are not one nation under God. We are a nation under many gods, or no gods at all. But, the pledge as it is clearly favors a monotheistic faith.
No ... ever since school-led prayer was taken away, the Christian community of our nation have taken it upon themselves to get their God back into the public schools any way they can. They have even gone so far as to argue that violent children are the result of not being exposed to their God on a daily basis in school. Posting the Ten Commandments is just one of the ways they have recently tried to serve the community with their God (whether or not the community is Christian), and thankfully it was unsuccessful. But, here in Mississippi, they HAVE succeeded in making it a law that the phrase "In God We Trust" be framed and posted in every classroom where it is visible by all students. Some will say that they are not trying to expose the kids to their God, but are just making "patriotic" signs. Bullshit.

Like I said, if I had the time to homeschool, I would.

[Egekrusher]

Originally posted by Gothic-chick
Hey man, I never said I wanted my kids to learn religion in school, in fact they don't. The only thing around here (and I am smack dab in the middle of the bible belt)even mentioned in school about God would be the pledge of allegiance. Which has nothing to do with any religion. I'm just saying, people who feel so strongly about their kids not hearing the mention of God or Halloween for that matter should consider finding a school that fits their needs instead of trying to change the public school that the majority go along with.

When my daughter was in Kindergarten there was a mother who was all in a ridiculous tizzy about the upcoming Halloween party. The kids were going to have punch and cookies and decorate little Halloween pins ( a craft I brought in) There were 18 kids in all. Finally I had to look at the woman and say there are 17 sets of parents who find no harm in this. Why not keep your kid home that day instead of trying to ruin things for everyone else?

To this day that poor kid of hers is a total outcast at school because of his parents constant interference in matters at school that are totally harmless. I'm telling you as I sit here if either one of my kids schools decided to have a day of learning about Hinduism, or Buda, or any other bullshit institutionalized religion which I hate all of them equally I would honestly have no problem with it. However how we discussed it at the end of the day at the dinner table at my house is a totally different thing..

But if their schools turned into say a catholic( insert any religion here) school I'd home school in a minute without trying to change the school to suit my needs. ( I couldn't put them in private school because they are all religious based around here)

I hate institutionalized religion in any form. It just seems absurd for anyone to assume theirs is correct and all others are wrong. I think it was all created to control the masses but that's another topic entirely...


My kids are only mine for a short time and I don't want to fuck them up. It's a heavy load I carry here as a parent to try and make the right choices for them until they are old enough to make them for themselves. They don't need me bitching about every single thing going on in school that I don't like... they just need both sides of the coin.


My Motto is Guide them and kiss them when they fall, but don't mold them into who you think they should be.

religious tollerance should be taught to every human being on this planet not one religion!


www.religioustolerance.org

Wow.. ok, so maybe I misunderstood you previously. Sorry for any flames directed towards you.

[Egekrusher]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
I have read this entire thread and I have to say that you are ALL arguing an invalid point...

Christianity, or any other religion, has never been "taught" in any public school...Evolution (The DENIAL of Christianity) IS taught in public schools...Placing the Ten Commandments where they can be seen, and saying the Pledge Of Allegiance is NOT teaching anyone about God...The Ten Commandments are basically a good code of ethics for EVERYONE to consider, and pledging your allegiance to your country is about PATRIOTISM and standing united..NOT a "lesson" in Christianity...

Damn...It is SCARY, when I have to be the one to present the voice of reason:rolleyes:

I must agree with Stingy on this one Bloodrayne. Evolution is a fact, it has been proven time and again through science. If you are going to deny that evolution is fact, then you may as well throw science right out the window and say that we are the center of the universe, the world is flat, and the earth is only 10,000 years old.

This is not "Trust in Science", this is "science is right". There are no 2 ways about that, and everyone (hopefully) here knows that.

No offense to anyone, but would you really have us deny scientific fact so that we may satisfy your religions?

[bloodrayne]

Well, Stingy...It certainly seems that you are going to continue to hold onto your title;)

When I stated that evolution is the "denial of Christianity", I MEANT that evolution contradicts creation, thereby denying that God created man in his own image (unless God is a monkey, insect, fish, whatever)...and thereby "denies Christianity"...Notice that I did not mention any of my own personal beliefs regarding any religion...I was making a general statement..I didn't even say that the theory of evolution was incorrect, or even questionable, just that it denies Christianity (which is a fact)..I do appreciate all of the information about it, however

You still can't convince me that any religion is being TAUGHT in public schools

You did make a couple of good points about the selected commandments that pertain only to God

As for the "Thou shalt not kill (how about in self defense?)"..I do believe that it has a basic meaning...The same as saying "We really shouldn't kill each other", which generally doesn't need any explanation, or get any arguments...As far as that goes, your "how about?" can be used for nearly ANY statement...There is an exception to pretty much anything

I still don't believe that the Pledge Of Allegiance is going to recruit any Christians

As far as "being exposed to God"...There are FAR worse things for a child to be exposed to in public schools, and 90% of that comes from the other students, not the teachers...Just ONE of the MANY reasons that I DO homeschool my children;)

I do feel that all that I stated is well within reason

It seems that you are a bit on the defensive lately, Stingy...I do hope that all is well:)

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Egekrusher
I must agree with Stingy on this one Bloodrayne. Evolution is a fact, it has been proven time and again through science. If you are going to deny that evolution is fact, then you may as well throw science right out the window and say that we are the center of the universe, the world is flat, and the earth is only 10,000 years old.

This is not "Trust in Science", this is "science is right". There are no 2 ways about that, and everyone (hopefully) here knows that.

No offense to anyone, but would you really have us deny scientific fact so that we may satisfy your religions?

Read my above post, Ege...I never said that evolution was not a valid theory, nor did I mention that I had any affiliation with ANY religion...So, you certainly didn't offend ME in the least...It actually almost makes me wonder who you may be referring to...lol

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
Well, Stingy...It certainly seems that you are going to continue to hold onto your title;)

When I stated that evolution is the "denial of Christianity", I MEANT that evolution contradicts creation, thereby denying that God created man in his own image (unless God is a monkey, insect, fish, whatever)...and thereby "denies Christianity"...Notice that I did not mention any of my own personal beliefs regarding any religion...I was making a general statement..I didn't even say that the theory of evolution was incorrect, or even questionable, just that it denies Christianity (which is a fact)..I do appreciate all of the information about it, however

You still can't convince me that any religion is being TAUGHT in public schools

You did make a couple of good points about the selected commandments that pertain only to God

As for the "Thou shalt not kill (how about in self defense?)"..I do believe that it has a basic meaning...The same as saying "We really shouldn't kill each other", which generally doesn't need any explanation, or get any arguments...As far as that goes, your "how about?" can be used for nearly ANY statement...There is an exception to pretty much anything

I still don't believe that the Pledge Of Allegiance is going to recruit any Christians

As far as "being exposed to God"...There are FAR worse things for a child to be exposed to in public schools, and 90% of that comes from the other students, not the teachers...Just ONE of the MANY reasons that I DO homeschool my children;)

I do feel that all that I stated is well within reason

It seems that you are a bit on the defensive lately, Stingy...I do hope that all is well:)

Well, you're right about that. Christianity is not being taught in public schools ... but wouldn't the Christians love it if it was!

I get defensive when I debate. It is my nature. It's my "debate persona". :) But, it's all in good fun.

I'm sorry if I made the assumption that you were Christian. It seems that I did, according to what I posted. But, my argument was really for Christians who hold the view that their God needs to be in the public schools at any cost.

I would post more, but I have to take a shower and get my mom's house. My wife is breathing down my neck for wasting time here!