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#1
06-24-2009, 04:49 AM
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Hell
I'm not what I would consider religous, I went to church every Sunday till I was about 8 and maybe 15 times in the last 20 years(not counting weddings or wakes). Yet some of the scariest movies I've seen involve Satan, demons and posession. We've learned more about Hell from poets than from prophets. Milton and Dante poured the foundation of the popular imagination of Hell today, but more and more people's opinion of Hell seem to be changing.
Being a father and having childhood friends who have been or are still in prison for atrocious crimes, I'm finding it harder and harder to believe in Hell. An omnipresent being is going to torture everyone till the end of time who didn't kiss it's ass while they were alive? If there is no Hell can there really be a Heaven? What's more grim, murderers in Heaven or no afterlife at all? I fall into the non-believer catagory, and I'm not depressed by that at all. I could be wrong(it's happened before) but it all feels like Crowd Control and Marketing had a baby and named it Religion. What are some of your beliefs on eternal punishment, is there a hell? What is it like? How bad do you have to be to end up there?
__________________
"The physical body is acknowledged as dust, the personal drama as delusion. It is as if the world we perceive through our senses, that whole gorgeous and terrible pageant, were the breath-thin surface of a bubble, and everything else, inside and outside, is pure radiance. Both suffering and joy come then like a brief reflection, and death like a pin" Stephen Mitchell 
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#4
06-24-2009, 05:26 AM
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my beliefs ?
there is no heaven, there is no hell. we are all happy (and not so happy) accidents. its up to you to choose how you want to spend this time. working within a society - being a good person ? or being a piece of shit. thats pretty much it. Last edited by urgeok2; 06-24-2009 at 05:40 AM.
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#5
06-24-2009, 05:37 AM
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Agnostism is where it's at. That's where they hide the heroin...
Seriously, i do not believe in a prisonlike system for eternal punishment. It seems to me that all western "book" religions are based too much on how we try to run things here on Earth. i am a fan of Karma, though, and i do not really wish to find out how that all pans out. The common theme seems to be that one keeps making the trek back to earth after death until he or she gets things right. Again, that seems a little contrived to me, but at least much more believable than demons with pitchforks. What really scares me is the concept of soul entrapment, where something gains the power or ability to trap your soul forever in a form of eternally cold isolation, using it in ways that only an evil ghoul could think up. i have this sneaking suspicion that those that do not follow the general flight plan of morality are more susceptible to some such demise. i am also a fan of the concept of ancestor worship, which also works on a form of karma. In Vodou (which primarily originated from West African belief), the dead that played by the rules during life are remembered by their families. Celebrations are held in their honor, and after some period of time (one year and one day i think) they may be allowed passage into the realm of the ancestors, which sounds like a pretty decent place for the soul to kick it. Those people not inclined to behave themselves while alive are believed to be forgotten by their surviving families and friends, and no celebrations are held for them, no passage to the land of the ancestors. They are left in a sort of limbo, which is believed to be in a cold, cold place at the bottom of the sea. There is even a specific ceremony where a houngan (Vodou priest) helps with this passage of those souls that were remembered and honored by the family. During this ceremony, there are always chilling accounts of the forgotten dead begging to be allowed passage, but all to no avail. They are litererally to be left alone in the damp cold for eternity. Great topic; love to hear some more thoughts. Ashe.
__________________
 Fate is my mistress, mother of the cruel abomination that is hope.
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#6
06-24-2009, 05:54 AM
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I was raised Catholic and I'm an Atheist. It's not that I didn't want to believe (it's nice to think that someone is watching over you and you can go somewhere nice when you die), but through research into Art and History, you can really see how Christian beliefs have evolved and it's pretty much a bunch of hooey to me.
That being said, the evolution of the concept of Hell and fire and brimstone is really been created by different people from different cultures in different time periods, which contributes to Satan have different names (Lucifer, the Devil, etc) and appearances (red man with satyr legs, dapper man, etc). A place called Gehenna near Jerusalem, is considered the inspiration for Hell as we know it today since it was basically a giant trash dump. They would burn the trash and sometimes that place would burn for days or weeks with a horrible smell. During the Renaissance, it was Dante who put order and definition to Hell with his Inferno portion of the Divine Comedy based on earlier depictions in art of the Last Judgement of Christ. The was a pretty good documentary that came out recently (you can get it on Netflix) called the History of the Devil. It's rather short (only 50min), but it basically gives a general rundown of the Devil and Hell through the ages and how the ideas have evolved. I would recommend checking it out if you're interested.
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#7
06-24-2009, 07:59 AM
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Hell is a motivator to help people live in a kind, caring and compassionate way. That's the way I view it.
The idea of hell that's now widespread I think it scary when you think deeply about it but it's been made into a bit of a cartoon.
__________________
 The Ferrets like it...
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#8
06-24-2009, 09:57 AM
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Hell is good inspiration for artwork.
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#9
06-24-2009, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
I do not believe, in anything religious or supernatural - I'm not scared of some Deity, I'm scared of the people who do believe - those are the ones who will put a bullet in your head, or start a war or blow something up [however, to be fair, that's because humans suck - if somehow there was no religion people would still find plenty of "reasons" to be horrible and kill people]. If there was a God in the conventional way most people believe, I'm not scared of "Him" either - I'll spend an eternity in hell if "His" insecurity is so great "He" must be worshipped. That is downright evil! Not 'beautiful and good.' Isn't anyone else creeped out when politicians mention God? That is the scariest thing ever. You know all of them, yes, every last one by definition of being a public figure are liars and whores and nothing more. And which deity? So many religious traditions have been lost throughout the ages, that we will never know about. The ones most people believe in today, indeed are a direct result of marketing and crowd control. The KJV of the Bible is an awful translation, yet it's what so many believe in, and those many will never bother to study the Greek and Hebrew it was written in. They'll just mention a few passages that justify their actions, or help get them elected or whatever it is they need to justify. For those that believe and are sincere, are really are deep down good people - I do understand that. It's scary, in some way we all probably need somethin. Personally, I like to meditate with no religious trappings. Shutting up and thinking for a bit is good. When it comes to the concept of Hell in particular, it's merely a human invention, part of mythology, nothing more. The controllers of various religions make all sorts of claims about hell, who goes there, and for what all the time - and this has changed throughout the centuries. This has nothing to do with a "God" and everything to do with evil humans trying to get groups of people under control. Also a lot of it is the situation a person might be in - for example, if you lived in the middle ages in Europe, life was harsh, violent and short. OF COURSE you want and need to believe in hell and paradise, and that you can and will get to paradise/heaven.
__________________
Sonor et Musica Extemporale http://www.facebook.com/AperionProject ------------------------- 
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#10
06-24-2009, 08:38 PM
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I think that both heaven and hell are constructs of the imagination, and spread into something beyond that as it went further out into common "knowledge".
I DO believe that there's some reason, some...thing that happened to make ourselves, the animals, and the world around us evolve the way they are/did but I don't like to put a "man made" name or concept on it. I don't do religion...I don't diss those that do, well, aside from the stupid ass fanatics that represent any given religious group poorly. See, the one common theme I've heard is a thing with a lot of religions is how the Christians and Catholics etc would put it "Don't worship false idols"...that there statement, and a few of the aforementioned fanatics have been what's steered me clear of organised religion. I mean...don't worship false idols...pretty much every "bible" has something like that thrown in there, and I just do not like the odds. One thing I really dislike, is religion being bought into schooling - I honestly think that this is about as close to legalised brainwashing as you can get. Religion is something a person ought to be told about the concept of, and if they care to "find" it, or further investigate, they ought to be allowed to do so in their own time. Aside from, I consider religious texts to be at most, guidelines. Sometimes a little misguided and out of date, but overall guidelines to not do shitty fucked up shit to others. So, I try to live like that...because if there is something/someone out there watching over us as subjects or a pet project etc, I'd like to think that if what I'm doing already isn't good enough for them/it, well, I'm a better judge of character to want to be in their presence anyways.
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The door opened...you got in..:rolleyes:
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