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Originally Posted by Ferox13
True it is sport but you do realise that it had very few rules - In the USA before the unified rules that only started slightly over 10 years ago in the USA things are very different.
In most old school MMA fights the only rules were no Eye Gouges/Fish hooks or throat strikes. That bars very little tools that could change the out come of a fight.
Under these rule sets very few striking stlye TMA artists did well at all. In UFC, a lot were beaten by a skinny BJJ stylist.
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In a real fight I am going to do things like attack the eyes, destroy the knees or damage the windpipe at the first opportunity. I'm going to seek to destroy the weak parts of my opponents body with my strongest weapon.
These things simply don't happen in sports regardless of how close to reality they attempt to train. You simply can't do it for obvious reasons and you need rules to keep people from being crippled or killed.
Now do NOT misunderstand me. Guys who do UFC, K1 and things like that are doing really serious training and it probably isn't too hard for most of them to switch gears if they find themselves in a real world fight. Certainly they are probably better prepared than those who do "non contact" or "tag you are it" point fighting. The only point I'm stressing is you still have to train for "fights vs. sports" regardless of how advanced your martial sport has become.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferox13
Karate is a board term but I really think most styles of KArate have an unrealistic appraoch to combat (the exception being Kyokushin and its spin offs). If you do not train full contact with a full unresisting opponant then you have no concept of fighting.
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Absolutely. I would take it a step further and say actual karate is now extremely rare. And it is nearly impossible to find it in any commercial dojo. This is because real martial arts are not about telling a student how "awesome" they are. Real martial arts are basics refined to advanced levels. The training is difficult, monotonous and repetitive and few people are willing to pay money for that experience much less devote the time and energy required to produce results.
This is why the usual karate that is encountered is motivational day care with some cool spinning kicks for good measure. Very few people even understand the point or purpose of basic simple things like kata and as often as not have an incorrect understanding of the applications within a given kata. They might as well be doing Jazzercise for all the benefit they are actually getting.
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Originally Posted by Ferox13
Its strange that you seem to think that conditioning is the boxers main attribute when it is just a by product of their training methods. For the most part thier advantage over the average Karateka would be their footwork, combinations and experience to work through head/body trauma. I totally agree with you saying their style is limited and I think a leg kick would put any Boxer off their game plan.
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By "conditioning" I mostly mean the ability to get hit and keep fighting and the ability to actually hit somebody with something besides a "karate tag." I know people who actually believe they are black belt who have never been hit "for real" and don't know what it is to actually damage or injure people. But these are the things a boxer is typically familiar with and as a result they have a tremendous advantage, this is also the same advantage MMA stylists who train realistically have.
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Originally Posted by Ferox13
I totally agree. JKD concepts was basically MMA but what Bruce Lee was writing about didn't bring about what we now call MMA.
I whole attitude to Martial Arts changed when i started full contact and it wa a real wake up call for me. I'm not trying to dismiss you art and the art is only as good as the ppl you train with. I have to admit I never heard of Kajukenbo until I saw it on Fight Quest and I'm not going to make judgement on a silly program like that..
I had a look for Kajukenbo sparring online and couldn't find anything that didn't look like points fights..can u show me some links..
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Finding guys who still do Kajukenbo correctly can be sorta like finding guys who do Karate correctly. One thing they have in common along with other serious minded martial arts is they don't feel the need to put themselves on youtube.
The only point where I think you are actually in error is your belief that MMA is somehow new, or revolutionary. Training methods always change, mindset is hardly ever new. If you think you are as "reality based" as the people who used to have opportunity to kill each other in the 19th century you are kidding yourself just a bit.
I'm also gonna follow up with a topic I did on another forum to further clarify a few things. I suspect you will find us more on the same page than not.