Gender vs Gender
 

So pretty much from the age you can understand words, it is drilled into people's heads that a man must not hit a woman. In all fairness, violence towards either gender tends to be frowned upon, but of all of them be it girl vs girl, boy vs boy or even girl hitting boy, boy hitting girl is the most socially unacceptable one.

But a story my friend told me got me thinking. A few months back, my friends older brother was in a club when a woman walked by and felt his arse. He turned around and said "Easy tiger" so she smashed a bottle over his head. In response, he head butted her. After being turned on by a lot of people and asked why he did it, his response was "If she wants to act like a man, I'll treat her like a man."

Listening to it, his actions seemed fair enough to me. She had pretty badly assaulted him and he wasn't gonna sit back and take it. I don't think he should have just let it go because she was a woman. Then I thought about it more and I got those feminist groups into my head, who insist that women are complete equals to men, and should be treated as such. But then, when a man hits a woman for a justifiable reason, they spring on him for being evil. Bit of a double standard, don't you think?

So from this, I think I've come to the conclusion that if a woman has done something in the way of violence that a guy would hit a guy for, it might be okay to hit a girl. After all, if I was walking down the street and some girl started punching and kicking me and it hurt, I don't think I'd just let her carry on just because her reproductive organs are inside her. Obviously, I'd try to run like I would if it were a guy, but if I see no other solution than violence, I'd fight back.

Thoughts on the matter?

girl trying to slap me = no hitting

girl trying to hurt me with weapons = jab and a straight right to the head


i have never hit a girl or woman in my life and i hope i dont have to, but if something happens like in your club story i will protect myself also.

Exactly. I've never hit a girl. Apart from once in Basketball, although i was actually just running and as my arm swung back it hit her in the chest. Completely unintentional. She just laughed about it.

If I did something along the lines of that fight in the bar, I would expect to get hit in return. All actions have consequences and sexually and physically assaulting someone while in a bar where obviously people are gonna be drinking is a bad idea. The least I would expect is to get pushed backwards and fall on my ass, and everyone would stare enough for me to be embarassed and not try that again.

Maybe I'm just used to it. I have a little brother with one hell of a temper. The most recent example was when I tossed a bag of salad at him and he didn't see it coming and got hit in tha face. Could not have possibly hurt, but he turned around and punched me in the shoulder as hard as he could. I have a very high pain tollerence though, so maybe I'm more likely to let that go. If he had hit another girl, my sister for example, there would have been crying and he would have been in trouble with my parents.

What people deserve and what should actually happen is different though. There was an episode of 20/20, one of those "What would you do" specials where they had a man hit his girfriend at the park and people were rushing over there to tell him not to hit a woman, restrain him, call the cops etc. Once they reversed the story and the girl was hitting her boyfriend, only one person stopped to tell her to stop.

I say kick everybody's ass, why discriminate?

I am lucky that i have never had to hit anyone. I would love to say that i would never hit a woman but you never know how you are going to act in diffrent Sitiuations but i know i would never want to hit a woman but I can't say that it will never happen.

First off, I was always taught 'never to hit a lady', which is a little bit different than just women in general. I've only open hand slapped a girl once, she had it coming though. Only on one occasion have I threatend a girlfriend, an ex who was a trained boxer. She was known to get out of control, so I told her if she ever tried to kick my ass that I would hit her. And for all intents and purposes, I probably would have to protect myself. Thankfuly it never came to that.

As far as a man hitting a women goes, it's wrong and we men know better. Pushing or anything less than a direct punch or kick(no knees or elbows either) when we need to protect ourselves should be enough.

I am a feminist, and I want to know why it's wrong? Do you think we can't fight? That's a pile of bullshit. I'd never hit a guy unless he got out of hand, but if we came to blows I'd make damn sure his balls were in my hands by the time it was finished.

I'm not saying this to sound all tough. I'm saying this, because the notion of "never to hit a lady" comes from the stereotype that women are weak and defenseless, which isn't really true. A woman can kick a man's ass just as surely as he can kick her's. It depends on, if it's just a generic fight how she approaches her opponent.

I don't know about some feminists, but I want to be treated equally. In the words of Ani Difranco, "I ain't no damsel in distress."

Haunted is dead on with the stereotyping issue, took the words right outta my mouth.

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If someone hit me with a bottle I'd more than likely snap regardless of their gender.

Since when is refering to someone as a lady a stereotype?

Of course women can fight, most haven't been taught how. Alot of men can't fight either, I also don't think you should hit a gentleman. Is that too stereotypical to men?

What exactly do you mean when you use the terms "lady" and "gentleman?"

Being treated equally should start with men not holding physicall prowess over women. I could punch out my wife everytime we disagree, but I don't because we are equal. That doesn't mean she's a damsel in distress. I find your argument more hurtful to women than helpful.

Someone with manners, well behaved.

How was I being hurtful to women? My point is that you should never hit a girl is bullshit. If some woman hits you unjustifiably, hit her back or push her or something. She obviously wants to fight you anyway, as in Ferret's story about the woman who hit the guy over the head with the bottle. That was totally unjustified. It's not a matter of her acting like a man; it's a matter of someone defending themself.

Assault is assault, whether it comes from man or woman. The actual logical thing to is call the cops. That way you don't get charged, but if you're in a rowdy mood and some asshole, be it man or woman starts trying to whale on your ass, it's totally wrong to let the woman get away with it just because she's a woman.

Oh, and that lady shit doesn't fly. It suggests a set of standards which we are to live up to. No way. I'm not a lady; I'm a woman. Well behaved my ass.

I'm old school and was brought up to never hit a woman.....but


Assault is assault, whether it comes from man or woman. The actual logical thing to is call the cops. That way you don't get charged, but if you're in a rowdy mood and some asshole, be it man or woman starts trying to whale on your ass, it's totally wrong to let the woman get away with it just because she's a woman.


I will agree with this statement.

But I would also try to seduce said woman with my charming ways first......if that didn't work then I would cold cock the bitch.


;)

Well Haunted, I don't dought you'd be willing to throw down with any man, but just because you're a woman who fights doesn't mean all women have to. Some women are actually proud to be more lady like, but that shouldn't disempower them in anyway. I think that by saying it's ok to hit a woman as an act of equality is harmful to women.
If you and I were the same size, and you started kicking my ass one day at FC's bar, I would do everything I possibley could to stop you without hitting you. I also wouldn't let another man hit you if I were just a witness to the situation. It has more to do with respect for the women in my life, my mother, my sister, my wife and the respect for those who taught me better than to hit a lady. I also don't hit little kids or animals, I'm pretty sure that isn't unfair, or is it?

If some 11 yr old came up and tried to fight me(28yrs), should I belt him too?

An 11 yr. old is a child, of course there's a difference. Their body hasn't finished growing. We're talking about adults. Now I don't advocate hitting elderly people. If some old woman hits you with her bag just because she doesn't like the way you look, you need to address her firmly but politely. Older people are delicate (except for Newb, of course).

I'm not trying to convince you to start throwing down with women. However, setting up standards for women to follow is bullshit, and many of us are tired of it. You can be classy and be woman. For instance I swear like a pirate, but I can be tactful if I want to, and I do it to please no one but myself. That's liberation.

I do.

Or at least messing up their hair and running away.

I think a kick to the ankle would do it...yknow, if I were being attacked with objects. If not, restraint shouldn't be impossible.

Yay, I started a debate!

I think that Haunted's feminist views are much better than the hypocritical ones that some throw around i.e. "We're equal, but you can't hit us because we're weak". It is very stereotypical.

And as for that study where only one person came to help the guy being hit, I think that shows that currently, however non sexist we may think we are, sexism is still there, even if it is just subconsciously.

Only once in a blue moon is a fight between a man and a woman a fair one. Fair as in equal size and physical ability. Even more rare than that are fights that are stacked in a womans favor(against a man). That's not a stereotype, that's a real life fact that we cannot escape. If a woman hits a man with a beer bottle, is it ok to react and punch her for it? I still say no. Does it happen? Yes, but wether it's an 11 yr old, an elderly person, or someone much smaller than you(be it a woman or not) it's not ok to strike someone who is unable to defend themselves from your strikes. In a fight between two men, the same rule(if you will) applies. When one guy is down or is clearly outmatched, fights over. If a 235lb. woman with heavy hands starts beating the Hell out of me, I can't say I wouldn't hit her. If I did, I know I'd feel like a total asshole for doing it.

Don't hit a lady, is the same as saying don't hit anyone who isn't doing anything wrong. I still disagree with the term 'lady' being a stereotype. Anyone can act like a lady, it's not a permanant title, it's a compliment and I beleive any of us can tell the difference between a lady and not.

It's exactly the same as an elderly lady, atleast 98% of the time it is. And it's about setting up standards for men. If I was telling you how a woman should behave, that would be a different story. As a man, we need to be aware that we are generally stronger than women and shouldn't abuse that strength.

i'd say it best not to hit anyone and certainly not anyone smaller/weaker than you (esp if you can avoid/restrain them) - woman, man, monkey it shouldn't really matter

Milktoast, I don't care how strong you think you may be, but if you hit me, and I got up and kicked you square in the balls, you'd go down. Then I'd slam your face into my knee. I weigh 124lbs and I'm 5'6 with a medium frame, but that doesn't matter. I just hit you at a vulnerable point. Never underestimate the power of a woman to know how to hurt a man.

Sorry Haunted, but I am that strong and woman are just as vulnerable to a crotch shot as any man. So your argument seems kinda silly, do you think it would be ok for me to kick you in the box if you had hit me in the face? As funny as that sounds, that would make us both wrong, wouldn't it?

But I'd say that if they've hit you with a beer bottle for something as small as that, they don't deserve to defend themselves. They've clearly shown that they don't consider their size to matter so you must acknowledge that.

No. Just because some girl wants to act crazy(like that never happens) and hit a man with whatever, doesn't mean he should have to resort to punches right away. Women do crazy things like that all the time-not all women, but it does happen. Any self respecting person would try and restrain someone like that and/or remove them from the situation. A judgement call has to be made if a man were swinging a bottle just the same.

I was involved in a scuffle in a bar with a frat-boy (this was waaaay back in my college days) when all of a sudden the frat-boy's girlfriend grabbed my arm and bit my hand.

I tried to simply shake her free, but she clamped down and I was bleeding.

I puncherd her square on the brindge of the nose. She fell back screaming and bleeding from the nose. That's when the Frat Boy's friends got involved for me "hitting a girl" and I got my ass kicked.

But the look on that stupid bitch's face as her nose started bleeding made it almost worth getting my ass kicked.

That was only an example of what I could do. I resent being defered to as "the weaker sex." Part of what goes into a good fight is smarts. Women believing they are weak is what get's them into cars, bushes, and ditches. We need to learn to defend ourselves. We've got to stop listening to that old rhetoric that we're weak and defenseless to you assholes. It's not true.

Exactly. She thought she was above being hit simply because she's got tits and you reminded her of the facts. It isn't a nice thing, but to me it sounds like in that situation there weren't many other options.

I know a few girls that could kick any guy in here's ass.


Back in high school I was in the lunch room sitting with my friends with the girl(who is a little butch by the way)comes up to my table dumps her tray of food on my head then smacks me in the back of the head with it.I'm dazed for just a few seconds.I regain myself quickly, stand up and punch her right in the mouth.


You may call me a asshole if you want but she deserved it and I don't feel bad about it at all.

Rather an interesting issue. While the stereotype may have originated as an archaic idea based on history it still has merit. Generally speaking males progress physically more then women, specifically in relation to muscle mass. That is a general statement rooted in medical reality. It's not true in every case between individuals but is very often true in a huge variety of cases.

It is why there are segretated sports, generally speaking to proffessional athletes at the top of their game will NOT be on even footing if there genders are not the same, males tend to trump that.

Now the issue of fighting like anything is an action that isn't straight forward. Some are more adept at it then others and many women can be more adept at such things then men. It's fine and I can accept that quite readily. I don't know which of them are simply by looking do I?

I am a relatively adept fighter, I have hurt people that have attacked me and waited for the ambulance. It's not something I am proud of and something I prefer to never have to do, but it happens. Now the risk that I COULD hurt someone gets greater both as you compare physical prowess and combat prowess.

If a woman hits me, with a bottle hard enough to smash it over my head there is more then a fair chance I won't be able to react anyway I'd be dazed it fucking hurts. If I was able to react my I certainly wouldn't strike out at the women, attempt to remove the bottle attempt to insure I am not hit again but I wouldn't strike her. My base reaction is that is not equal standing, and there is a real fear that I could hurt her seriously. It may not be true in all cases I am sure there are many women more then a match for me, I am not able to till by eye sight though.

Another example, I was once blindsided by a 14 year old with a phone book. He came up behind me with a leaping strike hitting me hard enough to drop me to one knee. I grabbed his wrist and twisted it away as quick as I could and pushed him back. He was a child, god knows I am not going to strike at him. Even as it was I broke his wrist very badly and was questioned by the police (at the time I was about 20). Now there is very possible 14 year olds adept enough to hurt me, again I can't see that by eye and I need to exercise discretion.

Generally we are talking about defending ourselves from assualt, excessive force is not appriopriate in any case whomever the opponent, what I think Milktoaste and myself are saying, is it can be that much harder to determine when we might be using excessive force if gender isn't the same. I would rather take the risk and take a bit of a beating then inadvertantly do serious damage to an opponent.

For those of you that don't knopw or whatever, I am female. I'm all for equality. If a chick hits anyone, even if it's a guy she should be expected to be hit back. I never hit one, but I've choked a couple of them that scared them to death. And I bit one so hard his arm had my teeth marks for a week. The dumbass didn't even fight back. Made it easier for me.

Oh I have been bitten hard enough for the bruise and marking to last well over a week... wait that wasn't a fight... nevermind.

If a chick is punching you - say wait, here, you can hit my face - 10 more of those and it might be almost like me hitting you...maybe...then she'll get even madder, probably try the "double-fist attack", making it easy for you to grab both arms, and restrain her while laughing and thanking her.

If she's attacking with objects, like I said, a kick to the shin is just some FUCKED UP pain that doesn't usually cause any lasting damage, even with steel caps...but it stops someone, usually...or at least makes it easy to retreat not having damaged a person much at all, they can limp after you, but they'll probably just be "ffffffuck" and rubbing their ankle.

The bite thing...hm...there's a few ways I think.
I wouldn't go with a punch to the face, but hey...
Try blocking the nose...but if she's breathing through her mouth too that may not work.
Try introducing even more arm/hand into her mouth. Force feed as it were. That would probably work.
Poke her in the eye, yknow, not hard, but maybe progressively harder until the eye poking becomes too unpleasant and/or irritating to go on biting.
Failing that, just pull her hair until she lets go - try grabbing hair from the back of the neck and pulling it up, that seems to hurt more.

All just "if you keep trying to harm me, this gets worse" stuff, but not all-out physical assaults.
Though usually if a girl were to attack me, I'd just have my girl (who has actually managed to hurt me on occasion) take the reigns and fuck her up.


Also, it's REAL unpleasant but a guy CAN take a hit to the balls and keep swinging, I mean most ball shots aren't all that accurate - heat of the moment etc - some pants like jeans have a "hard" kind of bridge that doesn't allow all that much impact through, not to mention unless the guys legs are wide open and don't close when the kicks coming, you wouldn't really manage to do any damage that would stop an attack.
Not to mention, guys are on to the ball kicking thing...if you tried once, they'd just turn their legs and make it inaccessible, the hips can pivot and all...not to mention, I'm sure a counterattack would hurt.
One on one, MOST women just could not stand up to an attack from a male unless they're packing pepperspray or a tazer, some other kind of weapon.
This is why I don't partake in fistfights with women...though some times I really wish I could change sex momentarily

It is a good point to note that it can be pretty difficult to hit someone in the Man-Tackle if they are prepared for the blow, it doesn't take much to avoid the kick as mentioned a swift turn of the leg will make it miss it's mark. It's a greater threat in a "Tackling and grab" sort of situation but anyone who can fight will make it very much a point to keep an eye on the hands.

And yeah if the adrenalin is sufficiently pumping you will push through the pain.

Still I know plenty of girls that can fight well enough that they generally wouldn't go for a classic nut-cracker until your unable to really defend it.

Precisely. Trying to restrain an enraged woman is not your best option either. There are other sensitive parts of the body. I mean they exist on male and females, but women can fight tooth and nail.

Just about the best thing you can do in any given fight is a punch straight in the nose, chicks should go with that if they're trying to fend of an attacker - Don't need much force to it, and a very sensetive, startling area to be hit.

Or you could take the palm of your hand and ram it up someone's nose breaking it that way. That pretty much always works. Of course, you may kill the poor bastard, but if he's attacking you, who the hell cares?

I think everyone's arguing but all saying the same thing. Neither gender should start a fight, but if someone picks a fight they are asking for it. Milktoaste saying that you should never hit a lady (or gentlemen) to me just meant that you shouldnt start a fight. He said that a lady is someone with manners and as soon as you are picking senseless fights you no longer fit in that category and you are then fair game.

I dunno though, I'm all for femenism and know that men and women are intellectual equals and can be physical equals in a fight. That said, the male and female body are built differently. Women tend to have a smaller bone structure than men, so a knock in the ribs with the same force could break a girls ribs but a man might be fine from that blow. Men have more upper body strength, while women have stronger legs. So, if a man had a fist fight with a woman he might be seen as having an unfair advantage. If it were kick boxing, that would be more equal.