Nutters can cite anything they choose as an influence - or blame - for their actions, be it violent films, porn or fast food.

The debate will run and run, but of course the tiny minority of criminals who might get off on Guinea Pig should never ever be allowed to ruin it for the rest of us.

That is: freedom of expression, with no requirement to explain why one might actively seek out the depiction of a woman being cut to pieces. The director's style of the piece is challenging to many, since it offers no explanation, redemption or inner purpose. But needing these things is an ideology, and some like to view art that goes against the grain.

I think I've suggested it before, but if you watch the Making of Guinea Pig the experience will seem far less intense, and coupled with the ridiculous over the top sound effects (common in Japanese extreme cinema) only the very young and naive (and insane?) could possibly take anything about it seriously.

PR3SSUR3, I'm not arguing that anyone should restrict your right to watch these films. I wouldn't favor that any more than I'd favor someone forcing me to watch them!

I suppose I'm wondering about the impact of films like these both on vulnerable viewers and on regular viewers. Clearly, no well-adjusted person is going to go out and hurt people because of what they see on film, no matter how extreme the film might be. I agree with you 100% here. Vulnerable viewers are another matter, but that doesn't mean there are no effects on "normal" people.

I understand how horror fans who have habituated to the level of violence and gore in mainstream films might want to seek out something more extreme. When regular horror just doesn't shock anymore, I can see how something a bit more exotic might sound good. But what comes after the Guinea Pig films? What happens when they are not real, graphic, or shocking enough? Can something worse be imagined? And what happens when one truly habituates to violence so it has no more emotional impact?

Good questions, but, again, ther eis something fundamentally wrong with the person in that scenario. any "normal" person has an inherent limit. If there is no limit, that person is, on some level, sociopathic, and therefore not normal.

We simply CANNOT limit expression because the feeble minded may be influenced.

That would be like banning all religion because some of the people with weaker minds may turn to cults or become fanatics.

I think I was very clear that this was not what I was talking about. Re-read the first sentence of my post.

Looks more like he was just making the statement regarding the topic in general to me...

the only line is the one that separates fantasy and reality. As long as it's fake, there's not a problem. Although if all a movie has is the gore, if there's nothing else to it, then I probably won't watch it. Gore is just a special effect, and a movie that's nothing but gore is no different than any of these big hollywood style movies that are excuses to show nifty special effects

You were asking what is wrong with me for liking Guinea Pig and its ilk, which is something of a slur.

It's interesting you ask about effects of such films on 'normal' people. Speaking as a 'norm' (hopefully), I would say the effects of extremely violent films are positive. Violent imagery can act as a catharsis, when it breaks the rules humans subconciously desire to break and shows us what can happen, what can be done, what hurts. Campaigners wanting to censor and ban such films are typically in denial of their roots and instead follow strange, irrational and doomed ideologies such as religion. This is not to say we are all murdering savages just beneath the surface, but we all have morbid curiousity for a reason, and humans have long been killers and meat eaters.

It's worrying that you seem to think experiencing the likes of Guinea Pig can only lead to seeking out 'harder stuff', and as is hinted by you raising the question you are suggesting a slippery slope into 'real' violence (otherwise, why ask about it?). Do you think all cannabis users end up on heroin, and, more suitably, porn viewers turn out to commit sex crimes?

When the latest Guinea Pig, August Underground, Eric Stanze or CAT III movie comes out and purports to be even more extreme than has gone before, I want to see it. 'What comes after' that remains to be seen, and I'll want to see that too, and so on. Extreme films can also be very boring, particularly when they all start playing the same tune. Which answers your last question too: I'll watch something else, like Titanic.

Rationalise, make distinctions, know reality, and you can't go far wrong.