Tell it on the mountain!!!

I agree Bill O'reilly is a great American.

A man who thinks with his head not his emotions.

Okay, I've been gone a while, so let me catch up...

KK13 - I'm with ya. I was very shocked to see those things coming from your screen name and I'm glad to hear there was an explanation.

Kpro - I think you handled that situation perfectly. A stern warning (with imminent banning if it ever happens again) is perfect.



Church and State need to be completely seperate. It is one of the principles that this country was founded on. If you want your kids to learn religion at school, send them to a private school, it's as simple as that. KK13, you need to look at the other side of the coin. Let's say that your Christian kid was attending a public school and the teachers there all preached Buddhism. You wouldn't like it. Well, it's the same thing for these other people on here that do not share your beliefs. If I was an atheist (which I'm not, but if I was) I sure wouldn't want my kids being taught religion in a public school. That's what private schools are for.



P.S. IMO, Bill O'Reilly would make about as good a president as Rush Limbaugh or Michael Moore. And that's not a good thing. People that are that stubborn in their ways and closed minded on issues have no place represting a country full of individuals. They would be great candidates for anyone that agreed with them on every issue, but O'Reilly likes to take the 'my way or the highway' approach, and that's not a good presidential quality for the majority of the population.

I think we need someone who is open minded and willing to look at every side of a particular issue before rushing to a conclusion and/or into action.

2 WORDS














































































































































































































































Homer Jay Simpson

Exactly! What is it with these people who think just because they don't want their kid to learn about God they don't want anyone's kid to learn about him? Why is it that their kid learning about God is so offensive to them ? They say don't push your views on my kid! That's the very thing they are doing to their kid, pushing their Atheist views on them.

There are tons of things taught in school that piss me off. Which is why I pay attention to what my kids are learning and then show them there are different views and they should explore all rather than going with the masses. Education shouldn't be limited to school.

Personally I do believe in God and I base that on my personal relationship with him, not any particular religion. Do I shove it down my kids throats? No. Do I think their picking up things at school I don't believe in ? Of course they are. Do I think it's ok for them to learn about those things Hell YES. How else are they ever going to figure out who they are and how they want to live their lives?

Both of my parents were raised catholic and attended catholic schools. I went to public school. My Dad was an Atheist, he didn't tell me until I was an Adult and asked him what he thought about God. He let me decide what I believed for myself and he respected it. I will do the same for my kids.

This is circle logic at its finest. This isn't really an argument the only reason it isnt offensive to YOU and CHRISTIANS is because its the CHRISTIAN god they are teaching in school, i would be just as pissed if they were teaching Satanism, as you would, the difference is because its Christianity, you are wondering why everyone else (who doesnt believe that way) is pissed off and your not....if it was a totally different religion from what you yourself believe, it would be the equivilent of a atheistic parents situation....

As for the rest of your post....I think thats a really cool and somewhat underused approach to parenting, and well....life really. I commend you on that, and the fact that you believe in not forcing your own beliefs on your kids (although lets agree that there HAS to be a certain, if understated in your case, degree of influence your beliefs have on them). You've earned alot more of my respect than i had previously given you, good form...

al sharpton get my vote, jesse jackson as vp.

amen to that

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Gothic-Chick -- as I said before, if you want your kid to learn about God, teach your child yourself or take your child to church. It is totally the discretion of the parent as to how they want to raise their child in regards to ideas of religion and morality. Not the government. Your children are exposed to god in church, and at home. Why at school, where other parents with beliefs different than yours send their children? Arioch is right. If you were a Christian living in a predominantly Hindu country, you would have reservations about sending your child to the public schools if they stressed Hinduism as the path to truth. You would probably argue, in this case, that they remain neutral in the case of religion (or, you could argue that they should teach Christianity -- but that would be a losing argument. They would simply say that Christianity is false, and Hinduism is truth. Then you both would run around in circles not being able to prove that either one of you is right.)

Religion has no place in public schools. If you want to raise your child a Christian, do so at home and take them church.

bernie mac.
:D

I have read this entire thread and I have to say that you are ALL arguing an invalid point...

Christianity, or any other religion, has never been "taught" in any public school...Evolution (The DENIAL of Christianity) IS taught in public schools...Placing the Ten Commandments where they can be seen, and saying the Pledge Of Allegiance is NOT teaching anyone about God...The Ten Commandments are basically a good code of ethics for EVERYONE to consider, and pledging your allegiance to your country is about PATRIOTISM and standing united..NOT a "lesson" in Christianity...

Damn...It is SCARY, when I have to be the one to present the voice of reason:rolleyes:

Hey man, I never said I wanted my kids to learn religion in school, in fact they don't. The only thing around here (and I am smack dab in the middle of the bible belt)even mentioned in school about God would be the pledge of allegiance. Which has nothing to do with any religion. I'm just saying, people who feel so strongly about their kids not hearing the mention of God or Halloween for that matter should consider finding a school that fits their needs instead of trying to change the public school that the majority go along with.

When my daughter was in Kindergarten there was a mother who was all in a ridiculous tizzy about the upcoming Halloween party. The kids were going to have punch and cookies and decorate little Halloween pins ( a craft I brought in) There were 18 kids in all. Finally I had to look at the woman and say there are 17 sets of parents who find no harm in this. Why not keep your kid home that day instead of trying to ruin things for everyone else?

To this day that poor kid of hers is a total outcast at school because of his parents constant interference in matters at school that are totally harmless. I'm telling you as I sit here if either one of my kids schools decided to have a day of learning about Hinduism, or Buda, or any other bullshit institutionalized religion which I hate all of them equally I would honestly have no problem with it. However how we discussed it at the end of the day at the dinner table at my house is a totally different thing..

But if their schools turned into say a catholic( insert any religion here) school I'd home school in a minute without trying to change the school to suit my needs. ( I couldn't put them in private school because they are all religious based around here)

I hate institutionalized religion in any form. It just seems absurd for anyone to assume theirs is correct and all others are wrong. I think it was all created to control the masses but that's another topic entirely...


My kids are only mine for a short time and I don't want to fuck them up. It's a heavy load I carry here as a parent to try and make the right choices for them until they are old enough to make them for themselves. They don't need me bitching about every single thing going on in school that I don't like... they just need both sides of the coin.


My Motto is Guide them and kiss them when they fall, but don't mold them into who you think they should be.

religious tollerance should be taught to every human being on this planet not one religion!


www.religioustolerance.org

I totally agree!

You calling evolution the "DENIAL" of Christianity is not the voice of reason. The Theory of Evolution happens to be the foundational theory for all of the Biological sciences. Species evolve. This is a fact. And I think a good science classroom should teach facts, regardless if they vaguely contradict someone's theological beliefs. If what you believe doesn't jibe with the facts, maybe you need reevaluate your beliefs. This is what education is all about! If you read Genesis, you'll see that plants were growing all over the planet before the sun was even formed ... so will you argue with a Biology teacher when they tell your kids that plants need sunlight to grow? Or, should that Biology teacher check herself all the time and say: "Unless you believe in God, through which all things are possible" every now and then?
And the Ten Commandments being a good code of ethics for "EVERYONE" is far from reasonable as well. I'll admit that there are several commandments that I agree with, but there are some that have nothing to do with ethics or morality at all. The first three, for example: I am the Lord thy God and thou shalt have no other ... no graven images ... no taking the Lord's name in vain. These are all well and good, if you want your Chrisitian child to show the proper respect to your God. Then there's the one about setting aside the sabbath and keeping it holy. My family does not believe that any days are more "holy", or profane, than others. The other ones are okay, but pretty confusingly simple: thou shalt not kill (how about in self-defense?), honor thy mother and father (what if you have abusive parents?), don't commit adultery (ok ... we can keep from doing that), don't even think about wanting your neighbors cattle or his wife (well ... that we can't help. You're going to condemn us for our thoughts??)
As far as the Pledge of Allegiance being uttered in school, I have no problem with it. But, keep in mind that the phrase "under God" was not in the original pledge. The original pledge was as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' The author considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ] In 1954 congress, after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, decided to add "under God" in the pledge, thus making it both a patriotic oath and a public prayer. Most of it is good, but we are not one nation under God. We are a nation under many gods, or no gods at all. But, the pledge as it is clearly favors a monotheistic faith.
No ... ever since school-led prayer was taken away, the Christian community of our nation have taken it upon themselves to get their God back into the public schools any way they can. They have even gone so far as to argue that violent children are the result of not being exposed to their God on a daily basis in school. Posting the Ten Commandments is just one of the ways they have recently tried to serve the community with their God (whether or not the community is Christian), and thankfully it was unsuccessful. But, here in Mississippi, they HAVE succeeded in making it a law that the phrase "In God We Trust" be framed and posted in every classroom where it is visible by all students. Some will say that they are not trying to expose the kids to their God, but are just making "patriotic" signs. Bullshit.

Like I said, if I had the time to homeschool, I would.

Wow.. ok, so maybe I misunderstood you previously. Sorry for any flames directed towards you.

I must agree with Stingy on this one Bloodrayne. Evolution is a fact, it has been proven time and again through science. If you are going to deny that evolution is fact, then you may as well throw science right out the window and say that we are the center of the universe, the world is flat, and the earth is only 10,000 years old.

This is not "Trust in Science", this is "science is right". There are no 2 ways about that, and everyone (hopefully) here knows that.

No offense to anyone, but would you really have us deny scientific fact so that we may satisfy your religions?

Well, Stingy...It certainly seems that you are going to continue to hold onto your title;)

When I stated that evolution is the "denial of Christianity", I MEANT that evolution contradicts creation, thereby denying that God created man in his own image (unless God is a monkey, insect, fish, whatever)...and thereby "denies Christianity"...Notice that I did not mention any of my own personal beliefs regarding any religion...I was making a general statement..I didn't even say that the theory of evolution was incorrect, or even questionable, just that it denies Christianity (which is a fact)..I do appreciate all of the information about it, however

You still can't convince me that any religion is being TAUGHT in public schools

You did make a couple of good points about the selected commandments that pertain only to God

As for the "Thou shalt not kill (how about in self defense?)"..I do believe that it has a basic meaning...The same as saying "We really shouldn't kill each other", which generally doesn't need any explanation, or get any arguments...As far as that goes, your "how about?" can be used for nearly ANY statement...There is an exception to pretty much anything

I still don't believe that the Pledge Of Allegiance is going to recruit any Christians

As far as "being exposed to God"...There are FAR worse things for a child to be exposed to in public schools, and 90% of that comes from the other students, not the teachers...Just ONE of the MANY reasons that I DO homeschool my children;)

I do feel that all that I stated is well within reason

It seems that you are a bit on the defensive lately, Stingy...I do hope that all is well:)

Read my above post, Ege...I never said that evolution was not a valid theory, nor did I mention that I had any affiliation with ANY religion...So, you certainly didn't offend ME in the least...It actually almost makes me wonder who you may be referring to...lol

Well, you're right about that. Christianity is not being taught in public schools ... but wouldn't the Christians love it if it was!

I get defensive when I debate. It is my nature. It's my "debate persona". :) But, it's all in good fun.

I'm sorry if I made the assumption that you were Christian. It seems that I did, according to what I posted. But, my argument was really for Christians who hold the view that their God needs to be in the public schools at any cost.

I would post more, but I have to take a shower and get my mom's house. My wife is breathing down my neck for wasting time here!

Yes...They most definitely would
LOL...Taurus;)
No harm done...I am unscathable:D...and I certainly appreciate your views

Actually, I was referring to anyone religious people in general who may read that comment. I do realize that evolution directly contradicts a direct translation of the bible, ergo Christianity.

One thing I don't see, however, is why there should be any selectiveness when it comes to teaching science in schools. Science can be wrong, believe me. Scientists used to think many things that have been disproven. But to completely circumvent the topic is really just taking a shit on the entire scientific process. I would dread the day that we went back to a non-scientific way of thinking, e.g. "God is blessing us when it rains", when we know that there is a valid, sound and proven scientific explanation for what is happening. To deny that is to throw ourselves back into the dark ages.

I'm kind of defensive lately too, my objectivity has kind of diminished lately. I'll work my best at bringing it back, but it seems as if the topics that we've been discussing lately are all of great importance to me and for some reason bring out these dramatic responses. That's not the way I usually am. I tend to fit more of the cold, scientific Scorpio profile when it comes to arguing. I'm letting my emotions become entangled.

Well you did jump into this arguement as the "only voice or reason":rolleyes:

Agreed that its not being "taught" in schools, there is no christianity 101 class. But it sure as hell is leaned towards. It doesnt bother me in the pledge, i agree its not gonna recruit anyone, besides stating where our government obviously stands on religion:rolleyes:

The 10 commandments up in school is a fucking joke tho. Not only does it have shit ONLY pertaining to christianity (although alot of good morality guidlines ill admit), its just not something that non-christain raised children need to be subjected to every day because it doesnt bother the christian majority...

Its a simple issue of majority in religion, the christians want it in school because they are the majority and feel they have the "correct" view on which religion to practice....

And bloodrayne if you dont want to get people defensive, you might try jumping into the middle of an argument with a little less "high and mighty" attitude....sure as hell pissed me off....

Colin Powell......... unfortunately he will not run. Surely some racist asshole would assassinate him just because he's black.

You're right...but he would rock as president.

Yeah, his wife told him not to because of that reason.

I think we need a Black and/or Woman president as SOON as possible....drive the fucking republicans INSANE!!!

He would make an AWESOME president, but as you said, he probably would get assassinated even if he did make it into office.

*giggles*

I'm Republican and it would'nt drive me crazy. Only if Hillary was elected president.

I guess Republican is a taboo word around here.

LOL nice!!!

Not at all...youll find many that agree with you here i imagine...they just havent been real vocal on the thread yet....bloodrayne will back you up on everything im sure....just don't dare call her a republican:D

Hehe..

http://votehillary.org/graphics/top.jpg

LOL!!! I expected something like that from you Egekrusher.

Gotta go......... wife's home with groceries.

I don't even understand that comment...I have ALWAYS felt that Condaleeza Rice would make an excellent president...She is intelligent, she knows foreign affairs and policies, she has extremely good ideas about how to deal with so many issues..and if Hillary were president, I SWEAR that I would defect...Talk about HORROR:eek:

Oh you know what it means....

heheheheheh

owned

*giggles*

Cool, thanks for saying so.... me too!

I would have voted for Colin Powell if he ran in the last election, however I will never vote for him if he decided to ever run..

I lost all respect for him, when he became part of this 'find the weapons of mass destruction' fiasco...and he became a

Presidential Administration puppet with George Dubya's hand shoved up his ass!

Jerry Springer!



Site Boredom Level: 64%