I think whether abortions are right depends on the circumstances. For instance, I believe a child is over 8 weeks developed it is despicable, but not if the person was raped. I think if the person just doesn't want a baby, it's wrong, unless the baby would be born into a horrible house with an abusize family. It all depends on the individual case.

I'm in the middle of this, I would never have an abortion and I think girls and women should only use it as a last resort, there are to many options today from financial assistants to adoptions, but I am for it when it comes to rape, I understand how B.R said its almost impossible to get pregnant when raped, but I don’t agree with the comment
If there hot, its sex,
If there ugly, its rape,
My mom was raped by my dad when they were married and he was drunk. I know some people say its not considered rape then, but trust me until your married and in a abusive marriage and your in that situation, then you have no right saying its not possible, he’s your husband. Then there is the girls who are raped by there fathers. What are they suppos to do have the baby? Not only would it be a constant remind of the girls child hood, but the baby would also be at a very high risk of child defects. Then there are the girls who didn’t think ahead and use protection or the protection broke, and I'm especially referring to the 18 or younger girls, now days it’s very common for girls to be having sex at 15 even. Lets say one of these girls had gotten pregnant from there bad choice of having sex so young. I would say to them, keep it, except I have met girls in this situation were if there mother or father found out they would be severely beaten or there parents would force them to have the abortion. If we took away these kinds of girls rights to have abortions I think it would be a mistake. If the person who’s having the baby's safety is in jeopardy or the child’s chance of living a healthy life is slim then the option should be open. I also have to add that maybe if parents were more involved in a positive way in there children’s life then maybe kids wouldn’t be having sex at such a early age now, I think until your 18 you shouldn’t have sex, your to young to deal with the consequence. truthfully I think 20 is better, and I’m not a hipacrit because I was a virgin till I was 20, I wanted to wait till I was mature enough to deal with any consequences. Most of my friends were having se by 15 though. My best friend had sex at 14. I find this disturbing. Personally, it makes me feel girls now days don’t value there self worth. Even though I feel this way about waiting to have sex, I do respect the girls who are young who do keep the baby and try there best to take care of it. There very brave for making the choice. I know if I was ever pregnant at 16 and kept the child I would have been very scared. So any young mothers out there, you have my respect. People make mistakes but its how they deal with there mistakes that is important.

oh and I took the advice on using word processors spell check, thanks who ever told me to try that. I did and it worked great.

Just for the record I don't think the guy shouldn't get any blame but in almost every one of your examples or posts you talk about the guy not having to go through it, the guy leaving the baby, the guy taking off on the woman. I don't know what may have spurred this, past relationships or just a general distaste for the actions of men, but we're not all pigs. I have just as much right to decide what should happen to my baby as the woman does. ESPECIALLY if we're equally "at fault".

I don't think an unborn child has any rights whatsoever, and its fate is quite literally in the hands (or womb) of its creator until it is born. As has been said, people can't really go around telling women what to do with what they have growing inside them - who are they to appoint themselves spokespersons for foetuses? ('Foetusii?')

However I think the way things are generally accepted now is about right - there should be a cutoff point for abortion, from when the 'baby' becomes significantly formed enough to be recognised as a human being, and not just a load of expanding cells. Usually this will give the potential mother plenty of time to decide whether it is right to bring it into the world or not.

Oh boy..what a topic.

1st of all Mona..as to the child being stabbed 135 times rather than being aborted..how do you figure this..
Just think..this living..breathing..tiny little creature,,with a heartbeat and a pulse is subjected to this kind of ordeal.
An adult can't stand being pricked by a needle..how the hell is it compared to a baby having a knife plunged into it multiple times...
As for the child being aborted..same thing..it is vaccumed out of the womb on high suction..however..whether the baby feels anything is just a theory..nobody knows for sure as the abortion will only take place if the fetus is 2.3 weeks old.
(professionally) and it is considered that at that stage..the baby hasn't quite taken any shape or form.
As i said..this is not factual..just theorised.

The arguement about men vs woman is probably one of the lamest i have ever come across..
what the hell has this to do with this topic..?
It all has to do with the woman and her choices.
Is she right for choosing to terminate a pregnancy..?
unless people know her exact frame of mind at the time..then who are we to judge or to pass comment...she is the one who has to live with the choices she makes.
and Rayne : maybe it is impossible to get pregnant after being raped (maybe in theory only)
they say its because of the trauma etc..however
..but not highly unlikely..and i am from the heart talking from experience.
There is always that chance..once the penis penetrates a vagina and once the seed has been ejeculated..that pregnancy is likely to occur.

Personally however: I would not abort in any situation.
To kill something as precious as baby under any circumstances is not an option i would happily follow..whether this child is being diagnoses with some kind of rare disease or not..whether it was conceived through rape or not.
This child is a clone to me and just like me..this fetus has a right to be able to be born and be subjected to thier own experiences.
Birthing is a painful and yet..its probably one of the most beautifulest sensations ever.

I see what you're saying, but this just looks fucking painful to me:-


http://lpig.doereport.com/imagescooked/7177W.jpg


:eek: :D :eek:

Yeah that's definently site appropriate.

So you want to censor natural childbirth - then why repaste the picture?

Gotta quote it somehow. Nice avatar by the way. Definently appropriate also.

Did you really need to quote being the following post, and really have to repaste that disgusting picture as well as the words?

But you like my cartoon tits.

Not sure about your avatar, though.

It says bitch. I don't think that broke any rules. However, nudity IS supposedly against the rules.

Who's nude? She's got pants on, and a top hat.

Or do you mean the lady having the baby?

Or is it because the baby's nude?

:confused:

veering a little off subject aren't we?


anyway, thanks so much for all the material.

i haven't really voiced much on the subject, and since i made the thread i guess it's only appropriate.

like i said before, i don't agree with abortion and it's by no means moral, but sometimes it's necessary. what if the mother's life was in danger? having some experience with this, i would rather save the mother than a mass of cells that doesn't even have a heartbeat yet. also, if a teenage girl is stupid enough to go off and have sex (with or without protection) she should deal with her mistake. however, the teenage body of, say a 12-15 year old girl is in no way mature enough to carry a child for nine months, then give birth. that could cause serious damage to the mother and the baby. why risk it? also, there have also been other cases where an older man will rape a child, and in that very slim chance, she will get pregnant. now if a teenager's body is not equipped enough to carry a child, how will a small child's body be?

on the other hand, if a girl keeps the baby, gives birth to it, and wants to give it up for adoption, how can she? if you carry a child for nine months you a part of it, i know i couldn't give it up. and if you just hand the baby over to a social worker it could end up in foster care. yes, there are good foster families out there, but there are also a lot of bad ones too. i guess i can't base my opinion of the system on my experience though, because that would be slightly biased. and there are statistics of children that go into foster care that get adopted, but with the population rising, a 100,000 or so kids won't be enough some day. and with all the girls have sex (again using an interpretation taken from my high school) there will be a lot of children needing to be adopted.

in short, sometimes abortion is the right answer, but most of the time it's not. i would never abort my child, but if it was a question between my life or its, or even both of us dying, i would probably take that step that is abortion. but i would also have to live with it for the rest of my life and always wonder about the little child that could have been. OH HELL, i'm confusing myself. how am i supposed to pick a side and persuade people about it?!?

Good discussion.

The way I look at it is from the second the egg is fertilized a new life form is created. From then on it is growing and living, a little miracle. Some woman cant have children and others kill them off before they even have a chance. In my opinion a woman is privileged when she carries a child. I believe I would deal with any circumstances and fight anything to give my child a life. I believe women need more support when pregnant especially young women and those in special circumstances. Woman who have abortions probably feel that it is the only way, they are probably without support and feel alone.

Also I think a child is just as much the mans as it is the woman's.

Author Jim Morton on the murder of pregnant Sharon Tate by the Manson 'family', from his book 'Manson Movie Madness'

"Much is made of the horror of killing a pregnant woman but let's face the ugly facts. If Polanski and Tate's child had grown up to be this wonderful kid imbued with his mother's good looks and his father's talent., then yes, the death of this child was, indeed, ghastly, but the odds are against this. Historically, the children of Hollywood couples grow into fucked-up, jaded adults with no more talent than the average lorry driver, and all the social skills of the Manson Family members themselves. Certainly, the killing of this child was a tragedy, but - as cruel as it sounds - maybe, just maybe, Tex Watson did us all a favour."

Pretty harsh viewpoint to say the least, but there is something in there about these 'little miracles' that spawn from us. It's easy to get all doe-eyed about having babies, and without them the human race would cease, but reproduction is natural for living things, and certainly not a privilege.

The world population has multiplied seven-fold since the turn of the 19th century - with people living longer and more babies popping out all over the place, each of them requiring food, fuel and a place to live, what state the planet in a thousand years time?

As to how a child grows up is to do with the parents. If the parents are incapable then adoption should be considered. I do not believe it is better to just kill a child rather than give the child a chance.

Over population is a problem. People should consider having children as a privilege and not just pop them out all over the place, here and there, one after the other. Abortion is not necessarily the answer though. Use precautions, be responsible for your actions. It is natural for humans to want to reproduce but we have evolved and should be able to over-come primitive urges.

Well, I don't know why people don't want children. I understand if they're under 21 or something but I can't wait til I have kids. But i suppose like I said earlier, it depnds on the circumstances.

pro choice

Despare referred to a case up here in Minnesota that happened recently where a teenage girl gave birth to a healthy baby, but then stabbed it 135 times and threw it in a garbage can. She knew about the law where you can drop a newborn off at any hospital, no questions asked, but she chose to stab the child 135 times instead. Her defense is that she was going to have an abortion anyway. I asked if being stabbed 135 times after it was born was better for the child than being aborted before it even new it existed. THAT's how I figure this.


I agree, no one knows if the aborted embryo or fetus feels anything. I guess that depends on at what stage the central nervous system developes. I personally don't know.

I'm not sure what you mean about the men vs woman arguement being lame, but never mind that. The key word you used in the rest of that part of your post is CHOICE. I agree, there should be an option for the woman going through it to make that CHOICE.


Personally, I would chose to have the baby under most circumstances too. But I do not have the right to make that decision for someone else. I know, all that is a repeat of what I said before, but so what.

Its so funny that most Pro Lifers are also war suporters. So don't kill unborn babies but kill enemy combatants and civilians, which many are childern, but not our christian babies please don't kill our christian babies. Jesus must be proud.

And abortion is here to stay because with out it there would be an undergound abortion movment.

the solution is to stop unwanted pregnancy. By using condoms and teaching the hip hop crowd that condoms are useful and they won't be less of a man if they use them.

Haven't researched your claims, but very interesting at the moment.

So you're saying it's cool to have children over 21?

If I was a woman, that would hurt my fanny and no mistake.

:eek:

Let me make sure I’m getting this right. The man is supposed to be equally responsible for the child and help bear the personal and financial burdens BUT doesn’t have a right to help decide if his child is born or not?

And all Mexicans are landscapers, all blacks steal, all Jews are cheap, all the Irish are drunks...

I never stated any of what you just mentioned
Men have as much rights as the woman when it comes to deciding such factors.
However..at the end of the day..it is the womans final decision...

well, that's the thing. I don't think the womans final desision is what makes either one happen, i think the woman just has more power to choose than the man considering she's harbouringf the baby. The womans choices and descisions are just as equal in what matters to the mans.

Stereo typing..
I have you know that if you look at the statistics..many abortions are done by white middle to upper class females who

1: decided that being pregnant and having a child would absolutely ruin thier careers as to thier bodies.

2:forced on by thier parents as it is shameful

3:forced on by thier partners as this is not what this relationship is all about..having children.

4:unaffordale at the time.

5:the fetus has some kind of sickness

the list goes on..but i guarantee you one thing..many hip hoppers are very pro life ...
having been in a debate about this topic before

you think poor people can afford abortions

not all hip hop people are black i would of wrote black if i was going to be racist. i am saying that being macho is too strong in that part of our culture and condoms are not seen as macho in the hip hop area of our culture

that is why i wrote most. Not all prolifers are war suporters. But if you asked a church full of people if they felt the war we are in right now is important they would say yes and then if you asked the same people if they feel abortion is right they would say "Oh god no."

It's so funny..... SOME people that are pro-choice are against capital punishment!




So kill unborn babies ,but let people like Ted Bundy live.

where do you see the word racist in my comment??
I said stereo typing..
And no poor people cannot afford this operation..this is why there are many back street abortions happening..leading to much death.
Hip hoppers are probably your most anti-abortion group out there..
and em serious..i had such a debate on this topic with a said group and it was heated..

I don't want to get into a debate about this topic ..
I think its a good one and the opinions so far have been quite interesting to read.

no that was directed to despare not you

yeah most hip hopers are against any birth control that is true

I know it wasn't, I just want to know where you did your research.

What to find out that alot of "studs" don't like condoms. Just ask people you see everyday.

Is that how you've decided that all pro-lifers are church-going and that most church going people are pro-war?

i didn't say all prolifers are church going i was saying church goers are most likely prolife prowar and prosilly

You're as bad as a racist bud. I'm done with this topic, should have been a long time ago.

i am not trying to be rascist you are just trying so hard not to that you don't see the point. if we educate the young we will see less abortions and unwanted babies, but i think i heard on NPR that they are on the decline in recent years.
besides i am black sucka

African Americans can't be racist?

no they are plenty racsist in any coloring but i am not rascist just observing what i see.
why is it ok to say "of color" but not "colored"?

Alright chaibill, you've baited me into one more comment. I said you were "AS BAD as a racist". You called all church goers silly, you're pathetic.


Suckaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

that was a joke just trying to calm you down. my grandma goes to church with her boy friend its not silly see, lots of normal people do it, but any one who says they are prolife but don't mind a few 700,000 dead iraqis and over 3000 american enlisted kids is really silly.

You do realize that if it weren't for war...We wouldn't live in America right now, right?...Unless we were all Native Americans...


But...That's another subject...