i say HOORAYYYYY!!!!!

lol...good show.:)

what does that mean?

orangestar leave

...good show=good job,well done etc.

ooo i get ya:D

If I talked to God, I wonder whether he'd help me.

for one lots wife was a slut so who cares that she died.
and twothere is only one god. atheist are just chicken shit sheep who are to scared to believe in god. besides if your god is so good how come he didn't stop us ( followers of the one true god) from killing his/hers followers?

thats the magic of my god..

people r born into each of their religions taught 'this is the one true way and everyone else is wrong'

so who the hell si right then? so my god just hangs out and like i said eralier, lets shit happen, maybe plays a little tricks some time

its just like mommy and daddy. they got to let us go sometime so we can go live life. what fun is life is someones sitting there not leting us figure ou diseases on our own, fight our own fights, etc..

u need the bad to really appreacitae the good.

wow, that really turned into something...well something...lol...and by the way...atheists aren't looking for a way to be different...there could be a shit load of reasons that turn them off of the reason that there could be a god....it could just be the fact of it being too much to think about a guy controlling every person on the earth and what they do, or "listening" to their prayers...or it could be something horrible happend to them or someone they love and it may have inflicted the to than just lose all faith....for instance...when someones dying in a hospital...if christian(or related religions that have such things as priets or wutevr the other names their called" they may usually have a priest come and visit them...read them some lines from that book(the name slipped my mind) and than he'll but the cross upon their head and usually end it with a "Have Faith, God is with you" or something to that extent...but if that person does die...and you were close to them...don't you think that having that happen could sometimes make people look at the world differently and make them lose their faith...now of course this is not the same for every person but you have to look at it from different aspects without criticizing other people about their beliefs...we all have rights to believe and say what our opinions and there's no reason to get upset about what one person says about your god...if you have faith for it..than good for you, and just don't acknowlege it...but the fact is....we should just be able to say what our opinions are without getting slaughtered by people says 'How could you?!" or any of that other load of shit....just respect it and if you want to...go ahead...ask them why they think this...but don't fucking get all bitchy about it...

KrugerKid, are you absolutely positive that the bible is right?

And that every word of it can be taken literally to understand God's creation plan for mankind?

The maturity we discussed.. yeah, it's back down in the negative range.

You have a very fucked up view on life. I pity you.

I wouldnt offer the "believers" pity Ege, if anything I see it as crowd control. The activities I enjoy and the places I enjoy to visit I know are not going to be overcrowded with these types of people thereby ensuring that I will enjoy myself.

They are usually so quick to condemn *hmmmmmm not very understanding there* and call Athiests sheep *hmmmmmm sounds awfully judgemental* and that we are too afraid to believe in something *hmmmmm sounds alot like FREE WILL to me*

I look through this thread and see about a hundred different issues/problems that could/should be addressed, but I'm only going to address these ones...

1. Atheists aren't sheep, they are people who, for one reason or another don't believe in God. They are entitled to freedom of religion so I don't think they should be criticized for it.

2. KK13, My beliefs are along the same lines as yours, meaning I diagree with alot of what's been said, but that's not any reason to judge people. You saying they'll burn in hell is wrong by all Christian standards. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

3. Je Suis, Most Christians do not believe that every single word of the Bible should be taken literally. It is a good book containing stories and anecdotes that will help us to lead good lives.

4. God does not send people to Hell for 'tiny' things. Stealing a pack of gum will not land you in Hell. The only way for a soul to be damned to Hell is if they die with a mortal sin on their soul. Mortal sin = Major sin (Murder, Adultery, Rape, etc...)

5. Jay's theory from Terrence McKenna is an interesting one. I've never heard that one before, but it makes for some good deep thinking... :D

6. Fluff, you missed the point of the two biblical stories you mentioned. No offense, but it's clear you haven't read either of them.

7. Je Suis, your last post seems like you don't like having generalizations made about you, but at the same time you are making quite a few inaccurate ones about Christians. (Obviously, they hold true for some, but not all. That's where generalizations come from.)


Okay that's it. I'm done rambling.

For everyone an interesting read-"Chariots of the Gods" by Erich Von Daniken, I dont necessarily agree with it but an interesting perspective none the less.

I have nothing against Christianity but I will say that more people have been killed in its name than any other religion aka The Crusades, The Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials etc.

Everyone has there own belief system weather it be Christian, Atheist, Muslim, Pagan, Wiccan or whatever. Personally I believe in The God and Goddess and a deep follower of Wicca with a touch of the teachings of the Druid Merlyn.

I have seen way too much in life and expirienced first hand to not believe that there is something besides us in life and that the Gods do not have a hand in things.

I feel that it is arrogant to think that all that there is in the universe is us and nothing else. We once thought that the earth was the center of the universe and that the earth was flat and so on. I guess we will all find out when we pass on.

"religion is the opium of the masses"

true back then, true today

Regaurdless of my opinions on the issues, KK13, your out of line....everyone else seems to be able to discuss the issues calmly, and your resorting to condemnation, preaching, and telling people to leave this thread? That wasn't even started by you none-the-less....

Just tone it down a bit....i realize you feel like your in the minority here, and you have to stand up for what you believe is right, but you dont have to try and destroy what OTHER people believe is right.....they have just as much right to their religion (or lack there of) as you....

You have no right saying some of the things you said....

I'd like to respond to the micro-discussion on "why some people are atheists."

For me, I'm an atheist not out of any traumatic event or the idea that "it's too much to think about a god listening to everybody's prayers."

Atheism is the road I have taken out of a natural tendency to not believe bullshit. It's like Santa Claus ... only nobody ever told the grown-ups the truth, so they went on believing in god and passed the idea down to their children.

I am surprised that so many people find it so hard to understand Atheism.

1. There is absolutely NO evidence of god. None whatsoever, apart from what was written in a book. Why believe in something when you have no basis for your belief? How CAN you believe it? That's what I want to know. And don't say: "I have faith." Yeah, well, I have faith that I'll live through tomorrow ... doesn't mean it's true. Certainly not true enough to condemn people for.

2. Science has been pushing religion around for centuries. Christianity had to change it's teachings based on the discoveries of science countless times. And yet, spiritualists will still say science is wrong and they are right (wufong). The only things the Christians have dominion over now are: a) How everything came to be; and b) What happens after death. But, it is only a matter of time before science answers THESE questions as well, and, if it follows the same trend, will prove spiritualists wrong about these. Why do you adhere to a set of teachings that were supposedly "Divine Truth" when they were first formed, but then proven to be incorrect?

3. It seems to me that spiritualists are pretty gullible. I would like to see exactly how far you can go to see what they'll believe. If I concocted some lame ass story about fungus beasts living in the mountains, and showed them some book I made that told all about them .... then, they should believe it. At least, that seems to be all it takes. They need no further evidence. And they think we atheists are messed up! lol

4. Actually, it seems to me that many people believe what they WANT to believe, without consideration for what truly is. I've known people who actually believe in undead vampires, just because they think such creatures are cool .... and they want them to be real SO BADLY! It just seems more intellectually sound to start with what you know to be true, and build your knowledge from there. Don't add anything to your belief system that has no basis in what you already know to be true.

5. This leads to what I will say to god (if I am wrong, and he actually wants to hear what I have to say):

"God, what the hell is the matter with you? Why do you make "faith" the prime criteria for getting into heaven, and then make us different from beasts by giving us the ability to reason?? That was a nasty trick. You give us the gift of reason and then send us to hell when we use it. Fuck you."

**** One final thing on the Christian idea of justice and "death-bed conversions:"

Let's say that two people die. One is a person like myself. A teacher, spends his life serving the community, never does anybody wrong. He dies an atheist. The other is a serial killer and raper of children. He was convicted on several counts of murder and rape, and was sentenced to death. However, while in the slammer, he begins to hear about Christ and all that. Then, right as he's about to be nuked in the chair, he sincerely asks God to forgive him of his sins.

According to the Christians, the first person will go to hell and the second will go to heaven.

That's a pretty fucked up view of justice, if you ask me.

Sorry for the somewhat long, defensive and possibly offensive post. I just get irked when I hear things like: "Atheists just want to be different" or "Atheists are just fucked in the head" or "Atheists are too scared to believe in God." I thought it was time to try to explain where most of us atheists are coming from, and I wrote it while in a slightly teed-off mood.

So, apologies all around.

very well written Stingy...and i'm sure a lot of thought was put into that...verry good, now more people should understand atheists more, or the perspective of it

Yep, that's true. From Christianity's standpoint, you're right.


The reason being that God is willing to forgive sins. All the atheist would need to do to join the sinner in Heaven would be to ask God for forgiveness. (Since he is an atheist, he probably wouldn't do that, but in theory, he could be right there side by side with the sinner in Heaven just by asking God to forgive him.)

The atheist's refusal to acknowledge/believe in God is what will end up costing him in the end (In Christianity's viewpoint). It's not that they couldn't ask God to forgive their sins, it's that wouldn't.

Jesus died for us...
 

Man, we are all lucky...Jesus died for our sins...If he wouldn't have been killed then we would all go to hell....

I too know these people:rolleyes: ...

Very good points stingy, and Bwind....i consistently enjoy reading BOTH of your posts on controversial issues around the board....You both are the model for posters on both sides of the issues.....goodform guys....

ALright smarty pants religious hooligans, Answere me this

Gos is all powerful right
God is all loving right
God is perfect right

All loving meaning not wanting us people to know or feel evil or hate or negative things.

Why then would he allow a world that lets evil exists? Free will you say? Well then if he is all powerful than he could make a world without evil but still have free will.

Answere? He is either not all powerful, all loving, or not perfect.

As far as all this atheist just want to be different? Don't make me laugh, Just because YOU have to conform and be a mindless drone doesn't mean that all us no believers just want to be different. It could be perhaps *gasp* that we arn't so easily pulled into conformity by the masses and convinced of such fantasy and nonsence as that of which the Bible tells us.

I've never met an atheist that, having just been kicked in the nuts, wont fall to the ground moaning, "OHHH GODDDDDDDD!"

yaa...4 me its like "AHH FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK"

look my boyfriend started this thread and i wish he didnt b/c everything discussed in this thread i have delt with in either school, with my holy roller relatives, or with just random assholes about religion. i cant stand it. religion and god and the bible shit to me is a bunch of bullshit. plain and simple. god or whoever the fuck is the supreme being hasnt done jack shit for me. ive gone through relatives dyin of horrible diseases to my own shit. for example im goin on my 4th knee surgery from a school injury.

WHERE THE FUCK HAS GOD BEEN THIS WHOLE TIME IM IN PAIN PLAYING BRIDGE WITH LUCY AND ETHEL?!? WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO PRAY THAT I DONT HAVE ARTHRITUS??! I MEAN CMON, WTF!?! IF THERE WAS SOMEONE LIKE GOD OR WHATEVER THAN BAD SHIT LIKE THIS WOULDNT HAPPEN TO ANYONE. IF THERE IS A GOD THEN WTF IS HE DOING WHEN PEOPLE ARE DYING OF AIDS, CANCER, FATHEM(SP?), AND SO MANY MORE HORRIFFIC DISEASES AND PROBLEMS ON THIS SHIT PLANET!

this is why i havent believed in any religion or any god for at least 9 years, maybe more;and im only 16 yrs old. so what does that tell you. it tells me that if there is a god then he better get the fuck off his fat ass and do something with this fucking world. we have wars, death, starvation and it just doesnt have to be, if there is a god he better get his ass in gear and fix this shit. im just sick of hearing religion bullshit. ive heard it all my life because my parents didnt put me throught ccd or communion or conformation or what ever the fuck that shit is. and if not attending church or ccd has made me an atheist then fine. i am what i am. IF ANYONE DOESNT LIKE IT, THEN FUCK OFF.

For only being 16, you have been through a lot of pain. That must really suck (and from the angry tone inherent in your post, it obviously does.) First, I am an atheist (you'd know if you read my first post on this thread). But, the Christian will tell you (and this is the most common answer I have gotten when I've asked this question) is that "it is all in God's plan." I understand what this means, although I don't buy it. Supposedly, God allows "evil" for whatever reason. Some may say that he MUST allow evil, otherwise there can be no good. Everything would just be "normal". No good, no bad. You can't have "good" without something to compare it against. Some may say that the human existence is very short in comparison with eternity, and the things we view as massive (like wars, plagues, etc.) actually cause very little suffering in comparison with the bliss offered in heaven. Plus, these are necessary evils. It would be pretty easy to get into heaven if you lived in a world where nothing existed to tempt your faith. But, God doesn't want it to be easy to get into heaven. Even though he loves you with an infinite amount of divine love .... he still wants to make it hard as hell for you to get into heaven to be with him.

For the atheist, there is no "good" and "evil" outside of human perception. We term things "good" and "evil" according to how they affect us. Therefore, if we were not here, good and evil would not be here either. For example, I watched my cat practically torture a mouse for half an hour before finally doing it in. It was horrifying, and I felt bad for the mouse ... but, I wasn't about to touch it and it needed to get its ass out of my house. I would not say that my cat was evil. Nor would I say that my cat was good if it left the mouse alone. BUT .... if I saw a person treating a mouse inhumanely just for amusement's sake, then I would likely call that person "evil." See? "Good" and "evil" are judgement terms used simply to describe human beings in relation to their actions. No people ... no "good" and "evil."

you always now what to say don't ya stingy:D

Well, it's not so much a downright refusal to believe in God. Believe me, the whole idea sounds quite nice. I would not mind living for eternity in bliss. Not one bit. The whole problem comes down to that I can't believe it. Even if I wanted to. I simply don't buy it, and will never believe it. So, I could utter "God, please forgive me for my sins and allow Jesus Christ into my heart, to have and to hold, till death do us part" and all that on my deathbed ... but, I would still go to hell because I didn't believe a word of it. You see? So, even though I'm a good guy, the Christian will say that I will go to hell for something that I can't really help. I mean, I would LOVE to believe that ghosts and zombies and vampires and all that horror shit was real. I really wish it was. But, I can't run around like some folks do trying to fool myself into thinking I live in some sort of fantasy world. My brain just isn't wired that way, I guess.

are you absolutley positive that its wrong?

why is it a fucked up view? cause its different from yours?

don't forget the great atheist stalin. he made hitler ( who also said he viewed religion as a crutch (sp)) look like a sunday school teacher. add up the crusades inquisitions witch trials etc doesn't come near to how many people died in the name of Communism.

im having my boyfriend delete this retarded thread. ASAP!

Or just in the name of religion, period...

if he did. you atheist would be crying about having no free will.

so according to your god people who rape, murder etc are ok they are just having fun and deserve to g oto "heaven"?

if you havent noticed the right wing jerkoffs who are running our country are trying to take that away.

and on another note:
SHUT THE FUCK UP BUDDY, YOU DONT KNOW SHIT FROM SHINOLA!

the way i see it. most atheist here are atheist cause the world isn't a perfect place.
it seems ya are all like
"boo hoo there is no god cause im ugly or boo hoo there is no god cause i'm fat. if there was a god i would be pretty and skinny waaaaa waaaa" ffs get over it already people get ill and die. people get killed in wars. build a bridge and get over it. and stop blaming god for the doings of man.