Haven't seen the Human Centipede but I very much doubt the film comes anywhere near to stuff shown years ago like the film 'Salo' that was completely messed up and I felt quite uncomfortable during & after watching it I guess I just wanted to see it because it was banned for so long by the BBFC over here.

Stuff like that was made purely for shock value, in my eyes. I doubt this is anywhere near.

You're right, it isn't. And anyone who compares Human Centipede to something like A Serbian Film wasn't paying attention.

I agree with you totally.

And people give me grief when I call it a black comedy!

There's definitely elements of black comedy in it. It plays out like a riff on the old mad scientist flicks.

For me Martyrs was the worst film to watch because its so disturbing. For this reason I won't watch Salo.
The worst film to watch because its so awful?I have to say The Last Lovecraft: Relic of Cthulhu

Jeepers Creepers, Quarantine, The Ring, The Grudge, The Eye, Jason X, Darkness Falls, Night of the Demons, Snakes on a Plane, Drag Me To Hell

I agree Martyrs was hard to watch but it's still worth watching.

I agree with The Last Exorcism.......we were falling asleep in the theater

Martyrs might have been Best Horror Film of the Past Decade had it just stuck with the first half of it. Still dont think it was worst by far. Lovecraft movies are impossible to make just because of the way he wrote and created scenes.

Martyrs is far more intense than most anything in Salo. Salo is more about degradation, humiliation, and control. Martyrs is about brutally breaking down a person not only mentally, but moreso physically. I found that Salo had me thinking for days afterward. There are some interesting concepts and views that come through the movie. Martyrs on the other hand, while disturbing and tough to get through, is pure torture porn. I didn't have to ponder it at all afterward because the whole concept is so contrived and obviously kludged together to give a reason for the violence that it invalidates itself. As far as I'm concerned, Salo is a very good film that while disturbing is quite thought provoking if you're willing to look under the surface. Unfortunately due to the nature of the film, I doubt the vast majority of people get that far. (When I saw it in a theater a few years ago, by halfway through over half the people got up and left. By the end I think maybe 10 of us remained.) Martyrs on the other hand is pure violent titilation with a "deep" concept slapped onto the end that makes absolutely no sense when you pick up a dictionary and read the definition of "martyr."

I agree. The movie was killed with the last third or so. When it finally ended the relief I felt had less to do with the violence and brutality being over, but more with the ridiculous plot coming to an end.

I enjoyed The Last Lovecraft: Relic of Cthulhu - it was silly has hell but fun. They needed to drop that shitty Star Spawn costeume though.

I never thought I'd hear someone say they found Martyrs more disturbing than Salo. I haven't seen Salo so can't comment on it I just wonder if it strays too close to borderline snuff like the original I spit on your grave. But I completely agree with you about Martyrs being torture porn being disguised as deep. It is worrying with torture porn cos its inevitable someone will take it to the extreme and do a snuff film no one has yet that I know of but it seems that's where we are headed if someone finds away to do it without going to jail. I hope I'm just being paranoid.

I'm sorry I didnt find it funny or fun. Do you not agree that it made Lovecraft fans look like idiots and I like Reanimator, from beyond and castle freak. They were amusing without having a pop at Lovecraft fans.

I thought Salo was a remarkably well made film, but tame compared to the original Marquis De Sade book.

Maybe I have overlooked this film-a few people say it is tame compared with the book maybe I am just thinking the worst after Martyrs. Is the urban myth that the director was killed for making it true?

I think he was a rather outspoken person with some controversial opinions, and that might have led to his murder (the motive remains unclear).

I take it you've read The 120 Days Of Sodom?

It was just poking fun at Geek/Nerd culture. As a nerd and a part time geek, I'm good with that.


No there is no inevitable jump between exploitation/horror film makers (like those who made Martyrs) from shooting fictional stories to murdering people and filming the process....

The thing with Salo is that most people haven't seen it. So, much like The Human Centipede (which most people haven't seen either) people are coming up with these vastly overblown ideas of what is contained in the film based on a minimal amount of knowledge and hearsay. It's based off of the Marquis De Sade's work, there was a ton of controversy about, the director was even killed possibly just for making it, so Salo has to be an absolute atrocity right? Not at all. Far from it actually. It's no closer to being snuff than any other movie where people are tortured and killed. I think the main difference is that if a person is attentive enough, they can see that Salo is not just another torture flick. While some other similar movie can be watched and forgotten right away since it has no substance past the gore and violence, Salo leaves a lasting impression. It can hit you on a different level when you really think about the big picture of what is happening in the film. Which when talked about later can make people who haven't seen it mistake that intellectual impression for an impression made solely by violence which would be typically the case for other movies of this type.

Like Ferox13 said, there is no "inevitable jump." That's the kind of logic that says all people who watch horror movies or play violent video games turn into violent, sadistic people who will probably end up killing people. Is it a possible jump? Sure. If the person was already headed in that direction. But making horror movies isn't going to make someone go from using foam latex and chopping up real people. Real life just doesn't work that way.

I see what you are saying but I think I would recommend Salo over Martyrs after I've what I've just witnessed...

Some people also say that the director was so nihilistic and depressed about life that they think he might have tried to kill himself anyway with disappointment in "the system".

Oh no I haven't read the book I meant I could see why the book was called "the 120 days of sodom" and the film is called "Salo" especially now as before I contacted a mate who had it on dvd and I've just watched it. Its hard to say what I think. I would rather people watched this over "Martyrs" definitely cos its clear there's things going on in the film that you need to digest for a while. Though it was NOWHERE as bad as I expected and I think I was confusing what I'd heard about the book with the film. Though I will say I nearly threw up at one point and I thought I have a strong stomach...

I do see what you are saying it could be me being paranoid its just bear with me I was talking about this on other sites, there is a very much a dark side to human nature that wants to see the fictional become real, you are right that when its being shot its not real but nevertheless you still find people who claim to have seen a snuff film knowing what it was supposed to be-therefore does that not suggest a market for the real thing?Waiting to exploited?. I'm saying that with films like Martyrs and I Spit On Your Grave the barriers between "real" and "Entertainment" are becoming blurred though I'm not saying this is specifically an intention of a horror film maker today. I'm pondering whether this ultimate exploitation will be released as entertainment as window dressing for something real.

Right you are putting words in my mouth. I admit my attempt to spark debate was cumbersome and patchy but I did not in no way use "kind of logic" to say that people who watch horror...."probably end up killing people" how dare you say that? If all you can do is try and shit stir against someone to make yourself look good how can you expect anyone to take what you say about "Salo" seriously?

Excuse me? You previously said:

The kind of logic that would assume that someone who makes overly violent movies would eventually make snuff films is exactly the kind of logic that would assume someone who watches horror movies will eventually kill someone. I used this example because it is unfortunately a very prevalent misconception in today's society. I used a similar example of your own logic to illustrate a point more clearly with something that is easier to relate to on a personal level and to point out what I believe to be a very serious flaw in your thinking.

As for me trying to "shit stir against someone to make yourself look good" get off your high horse. If I cared about such trivial nonsense do you really think that over three years I would have only posted ~150 times? I'm sorry that you can't take it when someone doesn't agree with you, but it's a part of life.

You have just admitted again that you are putting words in my mouth by saying I am "using exactly the kind of logic". There is a huge difference in the flaw of what I said suggesting that filmmakers may eventually make a "snuff" movie to you suggesting that I meant "people who love horror movies will probably kill people". That makes what you said personal to me by implying my post indicated something that is "prevalent in today's society". I'm sorry if you think I'm being trivial and as for me not liking it when someone disagrees with me. If you read my reply to ferox13 you would see that he was disagreeing with what I said without making it personal like you did. So I expanded my reasoning behind my suggestion but obviously you would rather we all bury our heads in the sand about this issue and pretend is isnt happening. I have been on other sites (not horror ones) where people claim to have seen a snuff because it was disguised as a horror film. I don't know if wheth they say is true but the fact that there is a market for this I find more disturbing rather than point the finger at the makers of Martyrs and I spit on your grave which was the only mistake I made.

I would say not as 'Real Snuff Movies'* don't exist. No snuff movie had ever been found. There are rumours that '3 Men 1 Hammer' was meant to be made to sell but this was never proven. There have been an other couple of failed attempts at doing them but where these attempts already had a market for their product was never determined.

That childporn ring that was broken up in Russia were siad to be dealing kiddie snuff too according to early media reports but again nothing came of this..

But then again maybe I'm wrong - if I am and those people on that forum are telling the truth then I would advice them to contact Al Goldstein - the editor of SCrew MAgazine. He'll give them $1,000,000 if they can produce the goods.

*I'm, using the FBI definition - That the murder has to be done solely for the purpose of making a film that will be later sold for profit.


OK thats my thread derailment over with.

Black Xmas & Bloodrayne are unwatchable IMO

Ugh... I'm NOT putting words in your mouth. You obviously can't understand the concept of using a related example to make a point. You're taking sections of what I post out of context and thinking they apply directly to you. They don't. I'm not making it personal to you, you are. So let's just end that part of the discussion here since you're not grasping what is going on.

What? Talk about putting words into people's mouths... For your sake I'll put my thoughts on snuff out there just to be perfectly clear. Do I think snuff exists? Most definitely. I see absolutely no reason for it not to exist. There is a market for anything you can imagine and a multitude of things you cannot. The market may not be big, but it's there. If there are sites dedicated to real gore like ogrish or the long gone murman, there is a market for snuff. If you want to get realistic, there's a good portion of the population who are already quite interested in snuff. They're the people who rabidly watch the news every night for updates on the various wars around the world, they're the people who go to sites and watch videos released of beheadings, they're the people who slow down and rubberneck at accidents on the side of the road. Sure, it's not the true definition of snuff in that people aren't being killed for the sake of being filmed, but it's still real people really dying on film on people are actively searching it out to watch it.

[QUOTE=siorai;887613Do I think snuff exists? Most definitely. I see absolutely no reason for it not to exist. There is a market for anything you can imagine and a multitude of things you cannot. [/QUOTE]

Do you really think so? How do you explain not a single film ever turning up, especially when police and law enforcement agencies have uncovered the most heinous types of child porn but never a commerially made snuff film.

I'll keep this to the discussion. I agree with ferox13 that I don't believe a commercially marketed snuff film exits. Yet anyway. I have no idea whether what people were saying was true I just think it is worrying that they are boasting about it. I reiterate what I said earlier in that it seems to be a dark side to human nature for some people to seek out a snuff film. I hope that they are reffering to the banned film "snuff" on IMDB. I haven't seen this myself but IMDB and others proved this was a hoax Take something like "Hostel" could such a thing really happen? Money does talk its own language. But I do think that the fact anyone who tried to market a snuff film would be instantly prosecuted is a huge factor. But if they could get away with it I think someone would actually do it.

I just can't see any reason why it wouldn't. Like I said there is a market for anything and everything. Obviously people are interested in seeing violence. This board is absolute proof of that. Of course most of us prefer to keep the violence fake. But do you really think that there has never been someone who not only wanted to see a real death, but also had the means to make it happen? I fully agree with Fearonsarms in that "Money does talk its own language." With enough money at your disposal, anything is possible.

As for the films not turning up, I'm not sure. It's quite possible that some already have, but they get ignored as fakes. Look at Guinea Pig and Charlie Sheen. It's entirely within the realm of possibility to have the situation reversed. Someone finds a real snuff film, turns it in, and the authorities just think it's fake. It's pretty amazing how realistic films can be nowadays so the line of knowing if it's real or not can definitely get blurry. For example, August Underground's Mordum. There's some pretty damn realistic stuff happening in there. Bits and pieces could very easily be thought of as being real. So what's to say someone couldn't see something real and just determine (probably because they deep down don't want to admit the real possibility) that it's just another Mordum-type flick?

The other reason could very well be the hardcore illegality of them. You couldn't just stumble upon something like this. You would really have to know people who trust you implicitly to find out about this. It's not like you go to a party and happen to meet a coke dealer who's willing to upfront tell you he's a coke dealer and immediately sell you some. So I doubt you would see films just randomly being shown or loaned out to friends. It would be a very tight-knit circle of people involved. Look at child porn. It didn't just start within the last couple decades. It's only recently that it's come to the forefront and people are finding more and more of it mainly due to the internet. It's far too easy for people to screw up online and say something to the wrong person. The illusion of anonymity can make people say things they wouldn't face to face. It wouldn't surprise me if within the next 5-10 years we see real snuff be revealed for the same reasons.

Sure, it would be nice to believe that something as heinous as filming the death of someone for pure profit couldn't exist in this world, but this isn't the land of My Little Pony or the Care Bears unfortunately.

This seems alot like the 'logical dictates it so' arguement. I would agree that there are an infinate amount of planets out there and common sense is that at least one must have alien life..

Thats how I feel but there isn't a single shred of proof to say otherwise until then I remain sceptical. Thats not to say I know 100% that there is no Alien life but so far but lack of evidence seems to prove otherwise. That is how I feel about snuff films..

Of course not. But you do know that the 2 major ways of the police catching people is 1) In the Act of the Crime and 2) When some one informs on them.

The 2nd is how they catch most drug dealers. They catch some one in possession and they get them to roll over on who gave them the drugs. This is how criminals operate. They rat each other out to save their skins.

I find it hard to believe that if Snuff Movies were being made then there was no one in the circle of production/knowledge who was caught (for any crime - unrelated or otherwise) and was willing to roll over on the fact if they lessened charges...

Keep in mind a snuff movie has never been confiscated by any Law Inforcement agencies EVER...So to get some one inform on knowledge of a real snuff ring would be a Holy Grail of collars...

And theres always that $1,000,000 dollar reward if you can show proof to Mr Goldstein. Do you really think any criminal enterprise would be so air tight..

As for aliens, how big is the universe and how long have we been looking? it's like looking for a needle in a haystack, pulling out a few stalks of hay and saying that the needle can't be in the stack because we looked. I feel that snuff might be in the same category. It would be a very, very small community. How many man-hours are actually devoted to finding snuff? Probably not many in comparison to those put towards more common crimes. A lack of evidence does not necessarily denote non-existence. It may just be an indication that more time is needed to find it.


I just think that in a community that would be devoted to killing people for profit and entertainment, ratting them out would obviously have very dire consequences. You're dealing with people who have absolutely no regard for human life or any laws. I also would think that $1,000,000 wouldn't be that huge of a sum in comparison to what a snuff ring might possibly pull in since you're talking about a very niche market with very big consequences if caught so the seller could almost name their price.

Hey siorai,

Because this debate was going really well AND we were derailed the thread I posted the last few posts from both us to make a new Thread HERE..

So if u want COpy and paste your last post into the Are Snuff Movies real? thread..

Done and done.

So let's get this thread back onto a far more horrific topic than snuff: terrible movies. :D

Great idea-I think Return To Horror High is pretty terrible it almost saved itself by going into the "so bad its good" category but then ended up being just ridiculous and silly. Disappointing as there was an interesting idea somewhere in it that should have been explored.

I bought Thirteen blind as part of a 2 for £10 deal at HMV when I was picking up Where the Wild Things Are for the kids and only made it 15 minutes in. It had the 'Golden Globe Nominee' badges at the top of the cover and I thought 'what the heck'. Big fucking mistake!:mad:

Oops return to horror high wasnt the last decade so ignore my post that was a mistake

Hallettsville was rather bad, it had odd phasing and the story was very predictable. It is not unwatchable but I would definitely say it leans towards the bad spectrum of the scale. it is not the worst movie of the last decade by far, but neither is it good.