I thought the subject had changed back to something more lighthearted? :p

Look! This wasnt about your point of view and/or opinions - I agreed with most of it.

Some of you are thinking I got pissed off because of said point of view/opinion. It wasnt that at all.

It was your last line that did it for me! Stubbs seems to think it was just a little sarcasm. Was it?

Now, if you go and check my posts you will see I do not oppose your opinion on the subject, ONLY your last line comment!

Doesnt that last line imply that if any parent here disagreed with you on your point of view/opinion, that you would see them as being on the defense - and therefore *guilty* of something?

*That's* what I was attempting to highlight - NOT your point of view or opinion on parents today but your dismissive last line comment.

This aint heavy, I just felt that it rather dismissive - 'tis all! :p

Yeah Newb!:p

This would be a good debate if it never got too personal

It wouldnt have got personal if certain people allowed a fair share of ideas instead of saying everyone else is wrong and others championing their control of the thread.

BTW Stubs, I added that comment to my post in response to Phan because I thought it was arrogant of him to do so and felt he needed it back at him. Keep supporting him though. And yes, this site has a dislike for newbs. You are just as bad as most, you just deny it more than them.

Of course we hate newbs..they take up too much closet space.!!!

How the hell can you so much as deny the fact that you took his comment way out of context.
By reading your response..it appears to me ..you were just looking for a debate..and pushing for an arguement.
Well..we here are sick of being accused as being portrayed as the assholes
just because our comments are too sharp or to the point
And besides..many of my bestfreinds are newbs..
and shit..if you found my 1st line offensive..then good for you..
em busy defending my right to a fair trial.

Fuck...you seriously feel as though you don't have the right to say whatever on account of being "new" here? Who fuckin' cares how new you are...if you've been buying into that for some reason, stop...I never once said anything like that myself...
re: what you said stub - I hope you didn't just relate her not being in complete unison with your views (or mine, you might've noticed) to some kind've dislike of newer members...if ever there's been another member here that's had fewer run- ins with anyone, new or not...I'd be surprised.
Not everything and everyone in life has to go your way...stop taking the world so personally. For someone claiming a right to an opinion you seem to be stepping on others right to make that choice for themselves.
Nothing to do with you being new or old...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...aynotogoth.jpg

You took others opinions very personally. And the irony is, their opinions were not in opposition of your pov/opinion, it was simply that provocative last line comment. Its about your attitude - "No need to defend yourselves because I know I am right". You seem to have ignored what my posts were about. You have just jumped on this "see, I was right, you are on the defense because you disagree with my pov/opinion".

How many times does it take one to type what this is really about?

I am defending the right to tell you that your were rather arrogant and bigoted to dismiss anyone. That any remark that was deemed a negation of your point of view is an obvious defense mechanism of parents who are probably guilty of your observations. You didnt give people a chance by dismissing any negative response as defensive.

No one actually was in true disagreeance - more so, this was about that last line - (see above)- I have mentioned it plenty of times now.

Perhaps you said that last line as a deliberate provocation but when it got too hot you wanted to run away - twice you said you are outta here!!

What if I ended this with "and there is no need to defend yourself, I know I am right"? How would that make you feel?

For everyone's sanity, including my own (its tiring having to repeat oneself!) - I am leaving this alone now - but I do think you should consider MY reasons for responding to your original post .

I repeat - this is about your dismissive attitude, not your point of view/opinion.

I don't think a kid should be discouraged from something just because it will be a social stigma. Not only WILL be, but COULD be. Things we got attacked for on the playground are becoming more mainstream. It's okay to play MMORPGS, to like anime, to dig Final Fantasy games and to be into flashy technology. Geek culture and pop culture are merging hardcore, so Goth might not be the asskicking worthy stigma it used to be by the time a 7 year old girl reaches junior high. Besides, Goth culture is a good defense during adolescence. You seem tougher, you feel tougher, sometimes you actually got an objective handle on your depression. I actually wish I had listened to more Cure and Siouxsie when I was that age. My depression felt like leprosy back then and there was nobody else who actually thought the world was as dark and unloving as I did. I could have used the camraderie of people with similar perspective. Instead of being alone in my room contemplating hanging myself maybe I could have been hanging out with some pretty young thing in a black leather bustier listening to Depeche Mode. Which of the two alternatives is better? The purpose of tragedy is catharsis. It's in Aristotle and Aristotle is mad old and very important. Instead of getting catharsis from smoking an eighth a day or date raping cheerleaders, goths with perspective gain catharsis from their art and lifestyle. It's more than good for a kid. Does this mean draping oneself in it, believing that it's uncool to be happy or locking yourself in your room because Tim Burton will never come to your birthday party? No. Does this mean getting a bigass Cradle of Filth tattoo will complete you? No. Nova should be glad she has a kid that digs her music and might continue to dig her music. It means that she will probably end up with a teenager that trusts her and values her opinion. I think Siouxsie and the Banshees isn't too scary for a seven year old. Peepshow has very fun songs on it. Burn Up for example. I think some Nick Cave might be good too, except Murder Ballads. I'm also with Disease on Black Sabbath. The only bad experience I had with Sabbath was hearing Iron Man when I was a kid, not hearing the lyrics again for a few years and growing up convinced it was about the Marvel superhero of the same name. Sorry for the longwindedness, but I thought I'd give Phalanx's argument about social stigmas a longer counterpoint.

Some of my deepest, darkest days as a teenager were spent listening to the likes of Black Sabbath - "The Wall" by Pink Floyd had to be a classic *depressive* state - but it made me work out that there is always someone worse off than myself! But I found comfort in knowing that someone could voice what I felt in my heart at that time.

I also found having my own identity in choosing a style of dress and music choice that felt akin to my *self*. (Okay, 100's of other kids were dressing the same way or listening to the same music at the time! but then you get a sense of belonging too).

My children dig my music and zany ways - I did away with my emotional baggage with the help of music and, in that, have made way for a happy, easy lifestyle with my own children. Self-expression and being listened too, having people interested in their choices, is the key to happy kids :D

And yes, I thought "Iron Man" was about Ted Hughes' fictional book of the same name!! :p

i cant belive one of the first replies didn't have iron maiden in it!!!
they do have bad songs but so did kiss.

NB: That there statement was not directed at you, shazbut. If you think I "ran away", well perhaps I bowed out because (as I've stated) I had no interest in this becoming a huge argument, which is how it seemed to be leaning. The times I came back (as also stated) were to attempt to better explain my point of view which I am honestly convinced I've done by now, to the best of my ability. You've already said what your problems with my post were what, 3 times now? Message received.
The post above was not even regarding the thread topic, I was actually just trying to put across that everyone has a right to their say on this site, regardless of joining date...go ahead, read it again, completely different issue which arose...and not really directed at you in any way.

DF, I get your point, and you make some kind've sense...but...still, IMO a 7 year old kid being open to the kind've judgemental bullshit I've seen "goths" and not to mention any kind've "different" people go through, especially during childhood...is not something I'd personally invite upon my child. Again that remains despite any positives you perceive...formative childhood years...say it with me...and there it is, again.

Buy her some Bathory and Darkthrone albums :)

if your referring to my welcome post to wu'...LOL..
he is not a new member..but a shit stirrer who was here in 05..
we know each other well..the asshole.

Take all comments as you please...