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-   -   Master Class in Filmmaking (https://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28123)

Roderick Usher 03-19-2007 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papillon Noir (Post 574258)
This is off-subject, but out of curiousity, where did you learn to write screenplays? Did you go to film school?
I learned by doing. No film school, no writing classes. I had been a songwriter, so I was used to being efficient and working in a three act structure. But I started writing because I was an actor constantly auditioning for and reading bad scripts.

I knew that I could do better, so I started writing. The first 3 scripts were pretty bad, but I optioned the 4th and that gave me the confidence to continue.

bwind22 03-20-2007 04:52 AM
Was the 4th one that you did well in a contest with?

And what happened to the 1st 3? Are they just sitting on a shelf somewhere or have you sold them since the 4th one got optioned?

Roderick Usher 03-20-2007 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwind22 (Post 574777)
Was the 4th one that you did well in a contest with?

And what happened to the 1st 3? Are they just sitting on a shelf somewhere or have you sold them since the 4th one got optioned?
No, the 5th placed in a screenplay competition, which allowed me to show the 4th one around. The first 3 were no good at all.

I've now written 18 spec features. 4 feature assignments (3 of which were produced by SciFi Channel - 1 was never produced) and 3 spec television pilots.

Of the specs, 2 have been optioned, 1 is being retooled and is about to go into pre-production, another one has sparked some interest. Amongst the others maybe 2-3 of them are good enough to get made but the old ones are really just the stepping stones which have gotten me here. Looking back to them isn't helpful, it's important to keep moving forward and growing as a writer.

bwind22 03-20-2007 11:41 PM
Here comes another stupid (very novice) screenwriter question...

When you say spec, I am under the impression that is the title given to scripts that are not adaptations or a project assigned to you. Basically, your own original idea. Is that correct?

(Sorry, I told you it was a stupid question.)

Papillon Noir 03-21-2007 06:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwind22 (Post 575328)
Here comes another stupid (very novice) screenwriter question...

When you say spec, I am under the impression that is the title given to scripts that are not adaptations or a project assigned to you. Basically, your own original idea. Is that correct?

(Sorry, I told you it was a stupid question.)
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people. :p

All kidding aside, remember that you can't go from a Novice to a Master without asking questions. ;)

Anyway, in response to your question:
A spec (speculative) script is one where the writer writes it without being paid and shops in on the open market, as opposed to an assignment, where a script is commissioned to be written by a studio or production company.

As to whether a spec script is original vs. adaptation, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter, as you don't need to be commissioned by a studio to write an adaptation, all you need is permission by the author (or whoever owns it currently) unless it's in public domain, then anybody can use it.

Roderick Usher 03-21-2007 09:09 AM
From an interview with John Carpenter on suicidegirls.com:

DRE: I heard about this his project that you might be doing next, L.A. Gothic.

John: Well, I’m involved in a couple of things right now. I just don’t know. The script for L.A. Gothic is very good. I’d like to tweak it a little bit, but we’ll see. When it happens, it happens. If it doesn’t, there’s always basketball.

There was a link to the interview from Ain’t it Cool News. The whole interview is here:

http://suicidegirls.com/interviews/John%20Carpenter/

Still rolling along. Will be meeting again today.

bwind22 03-21-2007 10:43 PM
Rod, Can you feel you star rising right now?

Like do you walk up to a club with a long line and the bouncer moves people out of your way and sends you in... "Right this way, Mr. Keller. We saved you a table right next to Brad and Angelina." ?

Or not quite to that degree yet? :D

In any event, I, personally can sorta sense that your star probably IS rising right now, just wondering if it's to a degree that you've noticed any changes in your day to day life yet.




And thanks Pap. So 'spec' just means that the writer wrote it in hopes (speculation) that they may be able to sell it. Is that correct?

When a spec script does get sold, is it then refered to as something else? Does it go from being a spec script to a different titled script?

Roderick Usher 03-22-2007 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwind22 (Post 575898)
Rod, Can you feel you star rising right now?
Nope.

Still broke. Still struggling, or rather "paying dues."

Some days it still fells like I'm never going to get anywhere, but those are the days you have to really knuckle down and get to the reason why I do what I do...love of cinema.

BTW my other flick has been put on hold again. Rough patch of luck on that one, but it'll be back together soon **fingers crossed**

Papillon Noir 03-22-2007 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwind22 (Post 575898)
And thanks Pap. So 'spec' just means that the writer wrote it in hopes (speculation) that they may be able to sell it. Is that correct?
You got it. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwind22 (Post 575898)
When a spec script does get sold, is it then refered to as something else? Does it go from being a spec script to a different titled script?
I don't know if the script if gets a special title when you sell it other than "sold". I have never sold a script myself. :o At least not yet :p

Before you sell a script, they are sometimes "optioned", which means that a production company has just reserved your script (for a specific amount of time) until they decide whether or not they want to produce it. You cannot option or sell your script to anyone else during this time.

After the studio buys your script it will sometimes go into "development hell" where there may be rewrites and they are trying to get the budget together and the cast and crew aboard. When they are ready to start production, it becomes a shooting script and usually accompanied by a shot list.

Let me know if you want to know anything else about filmmaking. :)

bwind22 03-22-2007 10:49 PM
Thanks Pap. I do have another question regarding dialect in describing scenes and actions. Please tell me which, if any, of the following examples would be acceptable.

1- The sun is setting at the end of a dusty road beyond a western town. In the distance, two men on horseback are riding in with the sun at their backs.

(It is my understanding that this option is probably the one I should be using, but every now and then I get the urge to write stuff like the following examples. I just want to know which is correct or incorrect.)

2- We see a western town at sunset. A solitary dusty road runs through the center of it. In the distance, we see two men on horseback riding in to town with the sun at their back.

(Pronouns. Is it inappropriate to use terms like "we see" in a script?)

3- The camera pans along the horizon until it settles on a quiet western town. At the end of a dusty road, two riders on horseback approach the town.

(Camera direction. Should it be included or not. I've read that a writer is not supposed to do the director's job for them, but I've also read that a script is supposed to act as an instruction manual for everyone working on the film. Is it inappropriate to use camera directions in a script?)

Thanks.

Roderick Usher 03-23-2007 07:30 AM
#s 1 & 2 are fine. I'd never use the word "camera" in a script, the same effect can be translated by using the "we move" method. But the key is to make the scene cinematic, make the reader feel like they're in a movie.

Here's how I'd write that bit.

EXT. DUSTY ROAD - SUNSET
A small western town looms in the distance. Long shadows fall across the trail with the CLIP-CLOP of horses hooves on packed earth.

Two MEN on horseback pull their mounts to a halt in the center of the road, their faces silhouetted by the setting sun.

MAN #1
Sure as shit don't look like much.

MAN #2
That's the beauty of it, real diamond in the rough.

The Men urge their horses forward with a light kick to the flanks. They ride slowly toward the town, sun at their backs.

Papillon Noir 03-23-2007 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwind22 (Post 576407)
Thanks Pap. I do have another question regarding dialect in describing scenes and actions. Please tell me which, if any, of the following examples would be acceptable.

1- The sun is setting at the end of a dusty road beyond a western town. In the distance, two men on horseback are riding in with the sun at their backs.

(It is my understanding that this option is probably the one I should be using, but every now and then I get the urge to write stuff like the following examples. I just want to know which is correct or incorrect.)
I'm so glad you're asking about formatting, so many people use incorrect formats. Using the correct format is just as important as the characters and plot. The one thing you have to remember when writing a screenplay is that it is not a novel. Whatever you want to relay to the audience about your characters and plot, you must do through actions and dialogue only.

As for your description, some of what you have there will be shown in your slug line.

Example:

EXT. Western Town - DUSK

Two MEN on horseback ride the dusty road into town with the sun setting at their backs.

Or

EXT. Desert - DUSK

Two MEN ride horseback on a dusty road towards the town in the distance. The sun is setting behind them.

You don't want to be overly wordy, just describe what is necessary to tell your story. You can still be detailed, but you always want to focus more on the dialogue, which is what really allows your story to progress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwind22 (Post 576407)
2- We see a western town at sunset. A solitary dusty road runs through the center of it. In the distance, we see two men on horseback riding in to town with the sun at their back.

(Pronouns. Is it inappropriate to use terms like "we see" in a script?)
You should make your descriptions as simple as possible. You can you use "we see", but only when it's necessary as it's generally implied. I would stay away from it if you can. I have only ever used it once to describe a montage that happened in one location, to differentiate between cuts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bwind22 (Post 576407)
3- The camera pans along the horizon until it settles on a quiet western town. At the end of a dusty road, two riders on horseback approach the town.

(Camera direction. Should it be included or not. I've read that a writer is not supposed to do the director's job for them, but I've also read that a script is supposed to act as an instruction manual for everyone working on the film. Is it inappropriate to use camera directions in a script?)

Thanks.
Camera direction--not a good idea unless you are writing/shooting/editing it yourself. Camera direction is the Directors/Cinematographers job and they are going to do their own thing.

I would only add camera direction (and edit cuts) if it is imperative to the story, like you really need a close-up of an object so that a character can make a plot turning revelation or something. I would first try to find a way show it through action and dialogue and only do it as a last resort. The "CUT TO:" every other line can very annoying and wastes a lot of space. Remember that it's suppose to be about a minute per page.

Now a shooting script is kind of like an instruction manual. But that's after it's been sold to a production company and the Director and Cinematographer have had their hands through it.

All in all, when writing a script there are "rules" and then there are "guideline". The rules are steadfast, but the guidelines should be followed unless it's imperative to your story.

So, are you writing a western or was that just an example? My first screenplay was a western. :)

bwind22 03-23-2007 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick Usher (Post 576491)
#s 1 & 2 are fine. I'd never use the word "camera" in a script, the same effect can be translated by using the "we move" method. But the key is to make the scene cinematic, make the reader feel like they're in a movie.

Here's how I'd write that bit.

EXT. DUSTY ROAD - SUNSET
A small western town looms in the distance. Long shadows fall across the trail with the CLIP-CLOP of horses hooves on packed earth.

Two MEN on horseback pull their mounts to a halt in the center of the road, their faces silhouetted by the setting sun.

MAN #1
Sure as shit don't look like much.

MAN #2
That's the beauty of it, real diamond in the rough.

The Men urge their horses forward with a light kick to the flanks. They ride slowly toward the town, sun at their backs.

Nice! Thanks!

I'm glad to hear #1 is acceptable because that's what I've been using. haha

bwind22 03-23-2007 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papillon Noir (Post 576510)
I'm so glad you're asking about formatting, so many people use incorrect formats. Using the correct format is just as important as the characters and plot. The one thing you have to remember when writing a screenplay is that it is not a novel. Whatever you want to relay to the audience about your characters and plot, you must do through actions and dialogue only.

As for your description, some of what you have there will be shown in your slug line.

Example:

EXT. Western Town - DUSK

Two MEN on horseback ride the dusty road into town with the sun setting at their backs.

Or

EXT. Desert - DUSK

Two MEN ride horseback on a dusty road towards the town in the distance. The sun is setting behind them.

You don't want to be overly wordy, just describe what is necessary to tell your story. You can still be detailed, but you always want to focus more on the dialogue, which is what really allows your story to progress.



You should make your descriptions as simple as possible. You can you use "we see", but only when it's necessary as it's generally implied. I would stay away from it if you can. I have only ever used it once to describe a montage that happened in one location, to differentiate between cuts.




Camera direction--not a good idea unless you are writing/shooting/editing it yourself. Camera direction is the Directors/Cinematographers job and they are going to do their own thing.

I would only add camera direction (and edit cuts) if it is imperative to the story, like you really need a close-up of an object so that a character can make a plot turning revelation or something. I would first try to find a way show it through action and dialogue and only do it as a last resort. The "CUT TO:" every other line can very annoying and wastes a lot of space. Remember that it's suppose to be about a minute per page.

Now a shooting script is kind of like an instruction manual. But that's after it's been sold to a production company and the Director and Cinematographer have had their hands through it.

All in all, when writing a script there are "rules" and then there are "guideline". The rules are steadfast, but the guidelines should be followed unless it's imperative to your story.

So, are you writing a western or was that just an example? My first screenplay was a western. :)
Thanks for the info!!! Very informative & helpful. I've read a lot of places that formatting is pretty essential so I want to make sure I have a fair understanding of it. That was just an example, mine is a vampire comedy, but it's weird... Ive reached a point about 1/3 to 1/2 way through my script and for the last few days I've only been thinking about how I could improve everything I already wrote and not able to concentrate on the rest of the story. haha

Papillon Noir 03-23-2007 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwind22 (Post 576515)
Thanks for the info!!! Very informative & helpful. I've read a lot of places that formatting is pretty essential so I want to make sure I have a fair understanding of it. That was just an example, mine is a vampire comedy, but it's weird... Ive reached a point about 1/3 to 1/2 way through my script and for the last few days I've only been thinking about how I could improve everything I already wrote and not able to concentrate on the rest of the story. haha
Sure thing. I love talking about this stuff anyway. :)

If you're going to be doing a lot of screenwriting, you should consider getting a screenwriting program. It formats everything for you and really allows you to write faster. I use Final Draft, it's awesome. It's expensive though, mine is actually a burned copy.

And don't be afraid to re-edit whenever you need to, usually I edit the beginning more than the end. :)

bwind22 03-23-2007 08:55 AM
I plan on buying Final Draft 7.0 in the near future, but I already wrote 1/2 a script with 100% improper format. I knew I'd be getting the software eventually, but I didn't want to put off writing so I just resigned to the fact that I'd have to do some copy/pasting once I got it. lol Oh well, I hear most people's first few scripts usually suck anyways so I'm not expecting much from this one. I may send it in to a cheap contest just to kinda gauge where I'm at, but this script is more or less a learning tool for me, ya know?

Papillon Noir 03-23-2007 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwind22 (Post 576524)
I plan on buying Final Draft 7.0 in the near future, but I already wrote 1/2 a script with 100% improper format. I knew I'd be getting the software eventually, but I didn't want to put off writing so I just resigned to the fact that I'd have to do some copy/pasting once I got it. lol Oh well, I hear most people's first few scripts usually suck anyways so I'm not expecting much from this one. I may send it in to a cheap contest just to kinda gauge where I'm at, but this script is more or less a learning tool for me, ya know?
Final Draft 7.0 has some really nice features (I only have the 5.0 version), I'll probably upgrade eventually.

Yeah, you'll first screenplay usually turns out to be just "ok", but after you have another one or two under your belt you can usually get back to it and re-edit it into something good.

bwind22 03-23-2007 10:34 AM
If I finish the script and still haven't purchased FD7.0, then I was planning on using scriptbuddy.com They let you use their formatting software for free online but I heard you can only save 1 script at a time unless you get the pay service. Know anything about that site?

Papillon Noir 03-23-2007 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwind22 (Post 576571)
If I finish the script and still haven't purchased FD7.0, then I was planning on using scriptbuddy.com They let you use their formatting software for free online but I heard you can only save 1 script at a time unless you get the pay service. Know anything about that site?
I've heard of scriptbuddy but I don't know much about it. I've only ever used Final Draft because I got it even before I started writing screenplays.

Here's a list of screenplay software that I got from wikipedia, it looks like there may be some other free ones in there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screenw...iting_software

bwind22 03-29-2007 12:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papillon Noir (Post 576598)
I've heard of scriptbuddy but I don't know much about it. I've only ever used Final Draft because I got it even before I started writing screenplays.

Here's a list of screenplay software that I got from wikipedia, it looks like there may be some other free ones in there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screenw...iting_software
Oh wow. That's a good list! Thanks. I'll have to look into a few of those.

By the way, does anyone know if Final Draft is Vista compatible, or would it be wise for me to wait for Fina Draft 8 to be released?

Roderick Usher 04-18-2007 05:57 PM
So I'm learning to be not-so-candid about my behind-the-scenes life. Seems most people don't like this sort of thing being made public, but I just had to share this tidbit.

We had received tons and tons of notes on our script from Mr Carpenter and spent the las couple of weeks implementing them. We turned in a draft a week ago Monday (minus the big finale - which we agreed to hold off on until after the bulk of the script has been tweaked) and have been waiting with baited breath for his response.

Met with him an hour ago. He loves it and repeatedly called us geniuses - which made me really uncomfortable, but I'll learn to live with it.

Now we just have to finish it. I can't believe what an amazing sensation this is, I'm all tingly.:D

bwind22 04-18-2007 10:29 PM
I was kinda wondering why your updates had slowed down. Did someone in Tinseltown see something you wrote on here & call you out on it or something?

Anyways, it's pretty awesome that JC likes your rewrite, but I think I'd feel a little uncomfortable as well if someone I held in such high regard kept pouring on the compliments like that. It's a great thing, I'm just not sure if I'd know how to react or what to say to that. lol


If you don't feel like you should answer this, then please don't, but I am curious... This LA Gothic script... Is it optioned right now or is it sold? Or somewhere in between?

Roderick Usher 04-18-2007 11:08 PM
I'll tell you all about it when it's prudent to do so:)

bwind22 04-19-2007 01:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick Usher (Post 590752)
I'll tell you all about it when it's prudent to do so:)
Fair enough. Keep me posted. :)

MisterSadistro 04-20-2007 01:38 AM
I'm still catching up on threads I've missed over the last few months I've been away and just caught this now. Many congrats, Roderick. My partner in filmmaking here in NC would kill to be in your shoes (figuratively speaking I would hope). I'm wrapping up sound on his first feature now in his office/spare bedroom and it's wall-to-wall JC posters and books in here. Best of luck on your film.
CK

AmericanManiac 04-20-2007 08:29 AM
Yes I just seen this thread, congrats to you my friend! I wish you the best of luck with this, I can tell that you are extremely happy. *cheers*

bleeding_angelgirl 04-20-2007 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick Usher (Post 590647)
So I'm learning to be not-so-candid about my behind-the-scenes life. Seems most people don't like this sort of thing being made public, but I just had to share this tidbit.

We had received tons and tons of notes on our script from Mr Carpenter and spent the las couple of weeks implementing them. We turned in a draft a week ago Monday (minus the big finale - which we agreed to hold off on until after the bulk of the script has been tweaked) and have been waiting with baited breath for his response.

Met with him an hour ago. He loves it and repeatedly called us geniuses - which made me really uncomfortable, but I'll learn to live with it.

Now we just have to finish it. I can't believe what an amazing sensation this is, I'm all tingly.:D

congrats that is so awsome

Zero 04-29-2007 04:03 PM
congrats rod - you deserve great success!

irontony88 04-30-2007 12:03 PM
hellz yeah

Roderick Usher 04-30-2007 12:35 PM
Thanks for the words of support, they are appreciated.

I'm afraid I won't be able to hang around the ol' HDC anymore. Apparently it's all too easy for anything I say in a public forum to be used against me in my professional life. And as much as I like you guys and gals, the career is a bit more important. So...

Thanks for the laughs. I'm outta here!

And go see my movies!!!!!!!!!!!:D

bwind22 05-01-2007 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick Usher (Post 596576)
Thanks for the words of support, they are appreciated.

I'm afraid I won't be able to hang around the ol' HDC anymore. Apparently it's all too easy for anything I say in a public forum to be used against me in my professional life. And as much as I like you guys and gals, the career is a bit more important. So...

Thanks for the laughs. I'm outta here!

And go see my movies!!!!!!!!!!!:D
It sucks that things work that way, but I understand. Take care & good luck!

chaibill 05-04-2007 09:22 AM
good luck Rod i 'll see your name on the big screen

Roderick Usher 05-17-2007 03:54 PM
Popping back on for a quick update - then I'll be gone for a while.

JC is officially attached to direct!:D

I have another script being shopped at Cannes as we speak and I may soon be scripting a fight film for a UFC star.

Still broke, but things are looking up!

Doc Faustus 05-17-2007 04:54 PM
Nice to hear back. Best of luck.

novakru 05-18-2007 07:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick Usher (Post 602322)
Popping back on for a quick update - then I'll be gone for a while.

JC is officially attached to direct!:D

I have another script being shopped at Cannes as we speak and I may soon be scripting a fight film for a UFC star.

Still broke, but things are looking up!
Well, that's exciting :) (not about being broke )

chaibill 05-18-2007 08:50 PM
keep on truckin'

cacuri70 11-18-2008 01:38 PM
Any news about L.A Gothic?

bwind22 11-19-2008 12:47 AM
IMDB lists it as 'In Production'. Rod's been kinda mum on this one. Probably because his other film, 'Giallo' (Directed by Dario Argento) is getting pretty close to being ready.


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