Alcohol and weed can be as bad as each other, but what allows them to be bad, is the weakness in humans which allows themself to be consumed by the 'drug' and to push limits to excess.

This debate shouldnt be about which one is chemicaly worse or more chemicaly dangerous than the other, but how people have made these 'drugs' dangerous.

Alchohol and weed, both contain natural elements found or grown naturaly in the environment.... hemp and hops. They were not geneticaly produced to create the byproduct, they grew as natural plants.

Then along came human intervention, be it Monks, hundreds of years ago, who first discovered the process to make alcohol and its intoxicating effects, and the people who discovered, that burning processed hemp plant leaves would produce intoxicating fumes given off, when the oils in the leaves were heated. It was all about discovery, and how things could be modified and produced, to highten pleasure.

It wasnt until the past few years, that these 'drugs' have been taken more seriously by the medical profession. Studies and Lab results have shown that both alcohol and weed contain elements that are beneficial to health. But these benefits, just like the benefits you can receive from all the other health food stuffs, will only be any good, if they are taken in a controlled way.

We lack this control in life, and decide to use alcohol and weed or both to feed our own desires for pleasure, and more often than not, this craving for pleasure leads excessive use.... the weakness in ourselves produces the 'danger' in these substances, and not the natural substances in the 'drugs' being dangerous.

thats what i was touching on earlier .. the human element ..
whatever it is in each particular person that triggers the good or bad response.

it applies to anything really ...
a hammer is used to create things .. was designed for that.
put it in the hands of an idiot and it becomes a weapon.

no difference with religion, the written word, or booze and drugs..

Or spaghetti.

Shanks and urgeok, I see the points that you are trying to make... That too much of anything is not good. It's not good to use anything in excess... And I agree with that, but how can you say weed is as dangerous as beer?


How many people die each year from smoking themselves to death from too much marijuana?

How many people die a year from drinking too much alcohol?

How many people die each year being hit by a stoned driver?

How many people die each year being hit by a drunk driver?

And just for the sake of argument, how many people die each year because of smoking cigarettes?

Think about it. Marijuana is far and away the least physically harmful to society. That can't really be argued. The absolute worst thing that happens if someone gets too ridiculously high is that they might get the spins and/or puke. A half hour later they are tired, and that's pretty much it.

Now think about the worst case scenario for a night out drinking... I mean, come on...

How can anyone say with a straight face that weed is just as harmful to society as alcohol (or even cigarettes?)

Why not ask the government to legalise it?

I don't mess with either, but I think that as a matter of personal liberty, marijuana should be legal.

The history of why certain drugs became illegal in the U.S. is long and tortured. It happened over a period of several decades. There was a time when products containing cocaine and opium were sold over the counter. They were sold as cures for a variety of ailments. During the progressive era of the early 20th century drugs became more regulated, first at the state level, then at the federal level. At first it was more about "truth in advertising" - forcing companies to label the ingredients of their products and that sort of thing. There was a time when you could still these drugs with a doctor's prescription.

During the 1910's and 20's various laws effectively outlawed cocaine and opiates(heroin, etc.). Racism against blacks and hispanics played a role in the passage of these laws.

And everyone knows about prohibition, of course. Note that alcohol prohibition (1919-1933) in the US required a constitutional amendment. There is no similar constitutional amendment authorizing the government to prohibit drugs like marijuana. It's all justified under the government's power to tax and the power to regulate interstate commerce. The first federal anti-marijuana law was the Marijuana Tax Act passed in 1937. It didn't outlaw marijuana per se, because you could technically possess it if you paid the government a special tax for a permit. But the government simply didn't issue any permits. (I think some clever dealer actually had one issued to him once somehow, but I don't remember the story.)

The other authority comes from the interstate commerce power. According to the government, damn near everything affects interstate commerce these days. In the medical marijuana case before the court now one of the issues is: does the government's power to regulate interstate commerce extend to people who grow marijuana for personal use, if the marijuana doesn't move interstate and isn't sold? The government's lawyers argue yes, because the production of marijuana increases demand, and that will lead in interstate commerce in marijuana. Personally I think the prosecutors in this case are full of shit and they should be out locking up terrorists, not sick people.

actually i've been saying from the beginning that the negative social ramifications caused by alcohol is far greater than weed ..
I dont smoke it - nor will i (legal or not) but i definately think it should be legal.

many people can handle alcohol .. but many people cannot .. and it hurts the community.
If weed became legal and widely used we might find out that some people cant handle it but i think that would be by far the minority and the negative aspects wouldnt be the same or as dire as alcoholism. (i may be wrong but i dont think so)

curious about this part .. what is the tie in here ?

(i dont know the history and you certainly seem to ...)

BWind...You consistantly make good, well thought out points. (glad you're on this side :D )
It's funny, the majority in here seem to be all for legalisation. What's the "average" over in the US...how do the majority view the marijuana thang?
As for whoever said alcohol and tobacco being legal was all about the money, I couldn't agree more...
I guess the current laws show how harmful and addictive both tobacco and alcohol really are...it must be a pretty bad problem among a lot of people if laws actually protect the sale and consumption of these products, there are SO many issues that simply get overlooked.
I simply cannot see how growing and smoking your own could possibly do harm enough to have been outlawed, by comparison to the drugs that are still legally sold despite the various forms of damage they do, or AT ALL for that matter.
I'm not saying that I think alcohol should be banned by any means, (although moderation seems to be more of a problem for the drinkers I've known) just that I find it more than a little unfair how unbalanced these laws seem...it's like saying that assault with a deadly weapon is ok, but armed robbery will get your ass grilled.
Doesn't make all that much sense to me...

You guys seam to be overlooking that actual damaging effects that cannabis / weed has on the body, particularly the lungs and nervous system.

As I said in my other post, about the beneficial effects from both alcohol and weed in small quantities, but these are completly outwayed by the negative and damaging effects when taken everyday or on a regular basis. These Uk medical study results, which I've been searching for on-line, have shown that .....(dont quote me on this)...... smoking a single joint does as much harm to the lungs as smoking 3 or 4 cigarettes in sucession... now tell me that aint damaging.

You'll also find that excessive use, which can be smoking just several joints a day, does have long term effects, not only on respiratory, but circulation, and mental health problems.

Alcohol will cause most of the above sysmptoms, except lung disease. However, it will take a lot longer and far greater abuse to the body before the physical damage is apparant, i.e. liver sclerosis takes many many years to have effects since the liver and other organs that deal with processing alcohol are far stonger than the Lungs. Lung Disease is one of the biggest killers world wide.... far greater than traffic accidents caused by intoxication through weed or alcohol use.

I drink in moderation now, far less than I used to, since going thorugh some rough patches. I also smoked weed pretty much every day a long time ago, and from experience I can tell you the weed affected me mental far greater than alcohol..... take into account though, all people are affected differently, but inevitably face the concequences of abuse.

thats why i've never smoked anything ..

coca cola/ coke wasn't called that because it sound neat. LOL

Each year in the United states the FACTS are.....



Alcohol kills about 80,000 Marijuana kills 0.

Personally I think in moderation Booze and pot are both ways to escape or enhance any situation.

But in the hands of an addict, booze ruins lives and pot makes you unmotivated.

I've witnessed both of the scenarios and I have to say if I had to choose between having an alcoholic or a pothead in my life I'll take the pothead any day!


Hell, I'd take 2 or 3 potheads over an alcoholic!

I DEFINITELY agree!

weeeeeeeell

there is only one arguement against that ...


girls gone wild.

drunk girls are more fun than stoned girls.

but drunk guys are far worse than stoned guys.

and there is one of the greatest mysteries of the universe,
and one of the only true differences between the sexes.
(that and how we buy shoes)

no doubt,

alcoholics are selfish whiney assholes and potheads are for the most part just goofy and hungry!

I agree, and have not dissagred that alocohol does kill many thousands of people each year. As for saying weed kills '0' people each year, I think you'll find that figure completely wrong and missleading.

With alcohol abuse, the syptoms and damaging effects are far more apparant... the damage that alocohol does to the body can be seen, be it looking unhealthy, bad mood swings and being socialy unaceptable. What you see with marijuana abuse is not apparant. It is far more difficult to see that someone is abusing their body and causing damage, simply because the only long term apparant effects are not visible, i.e. lung and respiratory damage.

Now, going back to the above point. The figures for Yearly death results, due to alcohol and marijuana never take into account long term abuse, they only show year on year figures. What you will find though, is the weed 'death' figure should actually be much higher than it is, due to this fact, that the long term lung disease it causes is far less apparant. People who are dying today from lung disease include a large proportion of people who smoked weed during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s right upto this more recent decade...this is long term disease, something of which is continuing but goes unnoticed by the general public , unless made aware. This is also the reason why the figures for weed smoking deaths is so missleading. Government figures do not and never take this fact into account, because all Government lung disease figures are put down as smoking cigarettes or polution related.

So how many people die each year from Lung disease, due to smoking cigarettes and weed in combination, from previous years long term abuse.......I dont know a figure off hand, but I can assure you it is far greater than those that die of alcohol abuse. Why do you think that politicians world wide are now lobbying Governments to take these figures more seriously, because they now recognise that all types of smoked substances have always been the major factor in long term unaccountable lung disease figures, and always will, so long as people continue to smoke these substances. Unless change is made.

pot heads usede to have the excuse that no one had died from THC-but didn't someone overdose after years of smoking a while back?

No. The only way it could get enough THC into your system to OD would be to inhale like a whole building full of smoke at the same time. A person's lung aren't big enough to contain that amount of smoke, there for it's not possible for a human to OD on mary jane.

Hahaha. That's funny because it's absolutely holds true from my experiences.

"pot heads usede to have the excuse that no one had died from THC-but didn't someone overdose after years of smoking a while back"

Not that I'd call myself a FULL pothead or anything, but I myself don't use that "excuse", I don't think anybody had died from a THC o.d of any kind, but that's not to say that lack of moderation hasn't lead to eventual death.
Anyone who doesn't moderate to a point is an idiot. An addict. Everyday use of ANY of these substances is probably not the best idea (although red wine does have its merits).
I care about my lungs enough NOT to mix tobacco in with mine, as many people seem to...that and I'd rather it didn't taste like COMPLETE shit.

There IS a difference between an alcoholic, and a drinker - I FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE THIS.
Same as there's a difference between a toker, and a pothead.
All about moderation. I've seen people go both ways, on both substances...both can CLEARLY lead to health issues.
Still, from my point of view, it's not REALLY about the damage you do to yourself...I mean, sure, that does come into it, but those that partake are usually aware of the risks involved.
My main consideration is the damage done to those around the user.
From both personal experience, and the HUGE statistics on alcohol related injuries, crimes and deaths, more of which effect the innocent, I choose marijuana as my drug of choice out of the two.
Sure, it might kill motivation, but if it kills the motivation to go out and do something stupid or violent, I'm all for it.
I'd rather kill motivation than myself or someone else, ANY DAY.

For the record...My - - I mean "stoned" girls can get pretty damn freaky too...trust me. They might not be EASY like a drunk girl, but they sure know how to please... ;)

*BUMP*

C'mon...there's more people here than ^this^...

just something i read in my book i thought id share

"A strong associatoin exists between substance abuse and inmate status. For example, 1 study of 400 Teas inmates found that almost 75% suffered from lifetime substance abuse or dependence disorder, ....... about 80% of inmates report using drugs at some time durin their lives, and more than 60% are regular users. About half of the inmates reportbeing either drunk, high, or both when they committed the crime that landed them in prion. Considering this backgroud, it shuold come as no surprise that more inmates die from HIV related disease than from prison violence"

theres probbaly more to it than that in another chapter. but just something interesting

I never ever heard of anyone going into a pot induced coma.

Nor have I ever heard of anyone getting violent and beating thier child half to death when they were stoned.

Havent smoked it in a while, sometimes I miss it. My woman needs it, so she will calm the fuck down.

Rarely do I drink, and when I do its the hard shit only.

Sometimes I like to get Jacked up til I bleed:p

Jacked up till you bleed. What do you mean??

I think it's prison slang for rough anal intercourse:p

Okay read this... I used to be the BIGGEST FUCKING POTHEAD ON THIS FORUM. This is all 100% true.

I used to wake up and smoke , smoke before school, during lunch, and everytime of the day.

If you could overdose from Weed I'd be the first.

The marijuana laws are fucking CRAZY!

Alcohol leads to fights, death and babies. (no, not all the time).

I've used a lot of fucking drugs. Weed is totally fine, but getting addicted it will control you like any drug. Sleeping and eating.

If you never smoke pot and your going to try it out. Just take a couple hits and depending on the weed, you'll get a good feeling.

I abuse every drug but I could give a shit because being sober fucking sucked and I'm sedated everytime I post here. :p

Fuck Alcohol it kills innocent people

They're High because they're life sucks. Criminals aren't the same as people who use drugs. They committed Crimes because they're Criminals and don't give a fuck, not because they're high.

How many people have you heard say "I didn't know what I was doing I was drunk" FUCKING BULLSHIT! YOU KNEW!

And the Hiv isn't from always needles its from fucking nasty bitches.

That was the stupidest ignorant quote I've ever read

Hi i'm Bob and i abuse everything.

*Group replies*

HI BOBBBBB!

I never know what the fuck your replies mean.

Rehab is for quitters
your way to cool for me :cool:

Are you serious? You never get what i'm saying...EVER? This could be a big indication to the looks i get:(


i'm more lukewarm then cool lol.

yes.. what retards for printing this book and distributing it to academies across the nation...

i didn't bother reading all the other posts, so i'm just gunna post my own opinion :P

it all depends on the person. from my own perspective, weed is worse than alcohol by a long shot. of course, my opinion is biased due to the reaction i get from bud. terrible trips.. ugh.. definately bad times.

plus, anyone who says weed is healthier than alcohol hasn't done their homework. well, actually, it depends on which part of your body you want to damage. yes, alcohol does kill brain cells and yes it does damage to your liver. however, weed has a large amount of tabacco in it, which still coats the shit out of your lungs. i believe there's nicotine in bud also... i forgot the exact numbers/statistics, but smoking one joint, or one bowl, or however you do it, is equivalent to several cigarettes. i can't say that bud fucks with the chemicals in your mind to cause permanent damage, because from what i've read, it doesn't. only downside is the damage to your lungs. so what's healthier? it's a matter of opinion. besides, bud is a stimulant. raises blood pressure, heart rate.. sometimes by up to 50%. your heart only has a certain amount of times it's going to beat in your lifetime.. :P

alcohol is a depressant, no that doesn't mean it makes you depressed (i hear that a lot <_<) it means it slows down your system. no risk of heartattack, etc etc

i dunno, from experience i just happen to like alcohol much better than bud anyway

...
 

hmmm...

i hate it when i'm wrong. hmmm, well, the homework that i did said tobacco was in bud /shrug. who knows

well, irregardless of what i said, or what you look up. what it all comes down to is preferance. it's all relative.. like most things :p

...
 

You are however on the right track with lung damage. Smoking a joint is more harmful to your lungs then smoking a single cigarette. Most regular cigarette smokers still do a lot more damage to their lungs than regular pot smokers though.

Yeah...good thing tokers don't smoke like 15 JOINTS a day, eh?
At least, not on most days...

RE - Simple mistake, both tobacco and weed contain TAR.

...
 

ignore...

I'd delete this, but I can't...

;)

- I didn't really get it either...
But I think your basic point was that moderation is cool, in all cases, right?
In which case, I agree wholeheartedly.

THAT'S IT!! tar... something kept nagging in the back of my mind that tobacco wasn't right. so replace tobacco with tar and my post will be more or less correct heh

in any case, i agree - most things, while done in moderation, are alright. hell, i'd probably smoke bud if i didn't get bad trips, but hey, whatcha gunna do.

i'll stick to alcohol and hookahs :cool: